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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
"sure I've been called xenophobic. I just happen to believe that America is the greatest country and the other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism." - Kenny Powers
Fuck fuckity fuck fuck fuck. Am I doing this right?
No, I don't want to own slaves. No, I don't think people from "insert country here" are better or worse than "America".
I just think each country should cater its immigration policies to favor its own citizens and longevity/prosperity. Europe or the US admitting hundreds of thousands of people who are quasi illiterate, lack a skill and don't speak the native tongue, is a retarded immigration policy.
Are you familiar with game theory at all? You're thinking about all of this as if it's a zero-sum game. Meaning you seem to look at the world as an 'us against them' sorta thing (and fair enough 'cause that's what was bread into us through natural selection and all, but as a society our greatest leaps forward have come once we were able to rise above our genetic encoding and work together).
I personally don't believe 'civilization' is a zero-sum game though, and it's certainly not us-against-them. If you think about any of the major steps forward we as a society have taken, it has always been accompanied by a push for more cooperation, further globalization. Nato and later the EEC/EU basically ended war on the European continent, and in the western world in general. That seems to indicate we should look at society as a positive sum game, the results we've managed as a society together are greater than the sum of what we would've been able to do on our own. You know, 'the rising tide raises all boats' and all that jazz...
The best protection against international strife of any sort is to make the world smaller, more unified. I'm European, but I'd much rather consider myself a world citizen, and that's what I'd hope we all aim for. To that end, patriotism is not a virtue, it's an impediment.
Now of course, the practical concerns you raise (language skills, cultural divides, religious indoctrination, etc...) need to be managed properly and are genuine cause for concern. But we shouldn't lose track of the overall goal, which is to improve society for everyone, not just those who happen to have a blue or burgundy passport. And I think that's what is setting people off in your, SG's, James' and buzz's posts. You all seem to be stuck in this 'them bad, us good' narrative, which is incredibly frustrating and unhelpful.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I find it funny when Europeans or anyone talk shit about the US which is the biggest melting pot on the planet. The ones that seem to be struggling the most with accepting outsiders seems to be our European friends..
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Stats can be manipulated to say whatever you want them to say. The recovery had already started when he took over, but economic statistics always lag. The problem is that people don't understand anything other than what they are told, which is often wrong.
The unemployment numbers are way, way off. They changed the rules halfway through to make them look good. Things are getting better now finally, but they were awful most of his presidency. Awful.
Great explain to us then. Explain how the data is flawed.
In particular explain to us how UE reporting was "Changed." The only people I see changing how UE is reported is the GOP, who can't stand low percentages on Obama's watch. They certainly didn't apply this new metric to anybody else prior, only Obama.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Again with the Us Vs Them BS. We're not talking shit about the US, we're talking shit about a certain portion of it's electorate.
Europe sure as hell does have it's own problems and my own country is polarized on a lot of issues, immigration being one of them.
And TheMole hit the nail on the head. More than ever our world is globalized and we're all kind of part of the same place, tribalism is antiquated. That's why it should matter how you're perceived.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I think it's funny when a particular segment of Americans get upset about outsiders giving their opinion on our political process or candidates. Considering most of them overwhelmingly supported the invasion of Iraq and subsequent "rebuild" (cough-cough-tax payer funded corporate give away.)
Not to mention the decades of global meddling, such as overthrowing a democratically elected leader in Iran and installing the Shah (wonder why they hate us?)
If we want your opinion, we'll ask for it.
- 'Murica
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I just finally got time to watch Trump's speech. That was simply amazing! Hillary has alienated the progressives with her pics and the Bernie supporters are going to be hard pressed to come out after it's been leaked the DNC had the fix in from the start. Better start getting used to a Trump presidency. The days of feel good, do nothing legislation while allowing this amazing nation to fall apart at the seems are coming to an end.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
What's odd to me as an Australian is the quality of these candidates.
Like surely out of everyone on the left Hillary isn't the best candidate, and surely there's better right wing guys than Trump?
I'm trying to picture this Trump presidency Randall mentions.
To my reasoning I can see some might thinkhe's "fun" because he doesn't seem like a crafted political candidate, but as a dude whose Dad gave him $100m in his 20s...(along the lines of Billions in todays dollars) he's not exactly a self-made man either - he's still old money from the usual circles who control everything (and who seem to control both sides).
But what worries me is the skill set. Seems like his qualifications are that he's rich and he's sick of the globalist agenda. Fair enough but doesn't he need a little more than that to be top dog in your country?
I'm trying to picture him negotiating a dispute with China or Russia, or some complex international issue that might arise.
Politics and rhetoric aside I just can't picture him having the diplomacy to handle stuff like that without wars starting. He doesn't seem like the guy for it.
Admittedly, I'm left leaning in my politics these days, but surely there's better right wing candidates in terms of previous qualifications, IQ, speaking skill, leadership and all the other metrics you'd want in a president than what Trump seems to display. The whole left or right thing aside he just doesn't seem like a presidential person.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
What's odd to me as an Australian is the quality of these candidates.
Odd how? Their style? The quality is certainly not much better in my part of the west.
Like surely out of everyone on the left Hillary isn't the best candidate, and surely there's better right wing guys than Trump?
Arguably the last two elections were even worse for the GOP. Most "good quality" leaders get the hell out of dodge in this game long before they get a chance to run for anything big. Whenever I see our politicians on the telly I think to myself "I don't know a single person who acts and talks like that". Like they're a different breed.
I'm trying to picture this Trump presidency Randall mentions.
To my reasoning I can see some might thinkhe's "fun" because he doesn't seem like a crafted political candidate, but as a dude whose Dad gave him $100m in his 20s...(along the lines of Billions in todays dollars) he's not exactly a self-made man either - he's still old money from the usual circles who control everything (and who seem to control both sides).
His dad gave him that money after Trump had showed he had capacity for business and leadership. There were other kids in that family, but not all of them got hundreds of millions. He had a good start no doubt, but which of these politicians didn't? He's not old money either, that takes a bit more time.
But what worries me is the skill set. Seems like his qualifications are that he's rich and he's sick of the globalist agenda. Fair enough but doesn't he need a little more than that to be top dog in your country?
The only skill set needed in politics is to look good. Better than the next man. The natural consequence of electing leaders based on popularity. Really, who cares how good they are at it? It's almost irrelevant to the leadership of a nation. At least Trump has some real life skills, most of these politicians have been living in a bubble all their lives.
I'm trying to picture him negotiating a dispute with China or Russia, or some complex international issue that might arise.
Politics and rhetoric aside I just can't picture him having the diplomacy to handle stuff like that without wars starting. He doesn't seem like the guy for it.
Trump seems like the exact type of guy you want when there are criminals and dictators on the other side, but that's just me. Don't see how any of the candidates on both sides would be much better in that situation. Christie? Rubio? Sanders? I wouldn't even buy a used car from them.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
monkeychow wrote:What's odd to me as an Australian is the quality of these candidates.
Odd how? Their style? The quality is certainly not much better in my part of the west.
Well I guess what I mean is I'm used to the candidates being a bit rubbish here - but Australia was only federated in 1901 with a constitution thats an odd mix of the American and English systems without the best features of either. Meanwhile we only have a population of 23 Million. Basically it's a young country and no one lives here so what can you expect to get.
The USA on the other hand - so many more people - so much more innovation and development - our best minds move overseas....but over there you'd expect there would be two people from either side of the idea range that seem a little more inspirational than Hillary or Trump.
Trump seems like the exact type of guy you want when there are criminals and dictators on the other side, but that's just me.
It doesn't seem like it to me at all.
Criminals or not international relations requires intelligence, tact, care and planning to avoid wars.
Trump on the other hand seems care-free with the truth, brash, arrogant, and most likely fairly disconnected from the reality of the common man.
Seems to me like he would posture, run his mouth and play hard ball with people until you either ended up in an isolationist mess or having to back up his bravado fighting more unnecessary wars.
