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Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
This joint interview from 2001 with Freese and Brain goes into depth on their transition. Recommended if you're privy about how the CD drumming was done.
Sorum: Has the chops to contribute creatively but is often limited on UYI by song structures already in place.
Brain had that problem. By 2001, he was re-recording Freese's drum parts for about 30 songs.
Freese: a methodic session drummer. Talented but also limited by what the client wants to hear. Doesn't have a particular individual style like either Matt or Adler but can be merged into any song. Is generic but good if you know what I mean.
Those were the drums on the get-go. Axl had more likely than not familiarized himself with Brain's style after Bucket recommended him.
Brain: probably the most technically proficient drummer GnR ever had. Has the skills and feeling to not overblow his participation both on the rhythm (listen to the isolated drum track of Shacklers) or on the fills. Knows how to play to the song and also make it full, with style.
The Freese drums were serviceable, but Brain's style opened up an opportunity, albeit a costly and time-consuming one - take full advantage of that Bucket / Brain chemistry and migrate it into CD.
At hindsight, this appears as a crossroads moment in making of the album. Had Axl said, 'fuck it', and done the same superfluous re-recording with B&B on the '99 album as he would eventually do with Ron & Frank, they would've gotten the album out in 2001. A follow-up album could've been a funkier version of the EDM nonsense, with more elastic song structures.
Oh, well.
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
Thanks for the joint interview, apex! Haven't read it before, don't know how I've missed it.
Freeze confirms some of the impressions I've posted from him on it:
"There's definitely a need for people skills and figuring out what they want to hear," he says. "Someone might try to explain something and even though he's not explaining it well, just by knowing his music and by talking to him I can kind of tell what he wants. Especially having done it for so long and in so many different situations. It's feeling people out, for sure, and trying to get at what they're doing. Not just musically but emotionally -- their approach to it."
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
Smoking Guns wrote:ID, you just repeated what I just said. I said Duff would be in Guns with out Slash to get Slash and you agree. Turns out folks left and it worked out. But Duff wanted Slash back in. And why wouldn't he?
Because Slash was not a requirement to Duff to perform for Axl. ID is right. Everything i've ever heard said Slash & Duff have wanted back in for years. Despite the success of Slash's solo work, it IS NOT Guns! Slash will never come out and admit this, but slick Axl wasn't so stupid when he secured that band name years ago. He might as well had a "guarantee of work" slip by the Gods of rock. Slash & Duff didn't see the LACK of work around the bend.
We all agree with this. Axl Rose band could have gone like Ozzy, but he didn't have Ozzy quality, and he wasn't bold enough to go out on his own as Axl Rose. So he kind of took the bitch way out and carried on with just him and Dizzy and all replacements. Pretty lazy but oh well.
For example, look HOW LITTLE Axl has worked. Ok, look HOW MUCH Slash & Duff worked. Yet, after 23 years, Axl is still on an even-footing with the two. Why? Because Axl didn't have to work -- he had the band name. It might be sleezy of Axl, but it's also the same aspects that Billy Corgan knew, Trent Reznor, David Coverdale, Rob Zombie (even though he did retire the White Zombie name, he basically continued the band as a solo project).
Yes, makes you respect Slash for how hard he worked to build his brand while Axl kept feeding off that GNR money train with NO WORK
Slash & Duff learned this lesson the hard way. It was the same problem with Velvet Revolver. Slash & Duff thought by shelving VR, they could make the brand name appreciate, and it didn't. They needed Scott, as much as Scott needed them, and certainly Matt. Look how Matt has done NOTHING since Slash & Duff "decided" to end VR because they wanted to focus on their solo careers/bands.
Slash needed that to end at the time. Too toxic.. And he had more freedom solo to just rip on guitar and play GNR covers
That was a load of horseshit. VR ended, because they couldn't tell with a junkie frontman anymore, not to mention, i'm still convinced that GOD AWFUL follow-up album Libertad, that had no singles on it, effectively killed the band worse than any spoonful of smack. It ran its course, and it died, and to this day Slash & Duff refuse to refer to it as a dead project (although with this GN'R thing and Scott's death, maybe they will finally come around).
I think you are right. They will admit VR is over soon probably. That band in 1996 would have been better, but the drugs would have been even worse then.
All of these reasons, and some i've added and elaborated on myself, are what I know and why Slash & Duff have wanted back in GN'R for years. They know how much money Axl is offered every year to reunite, and he turns it down. They want to make more money, so they don't have to tour.
Slash loves to tour. He loves money, but he also loves the spirit of rock n roll too....
Slash had some success. But look at Duff. Duff's post-GN'R/pre-VR & post-VR/pre-GN'R return, was a complete and utter bomb. Loaded was a flop. Can we say that now? The music was largely forgettable and didn't catch on. Can we say that now? Since 2010, Duff had probably been knocking on that door, and honestly to this day I don't buy for one second Axl & Duff's story of how Duff appearing in London in 2010 came to be. I still think it was all a work to test the waters. I find it curious, that Duff played rhythm guitar on songs. I always wonder if they were kicking the tires on some re-configuration of GN'R that kept Tommy involved, and still brought back Duff.
Slash had a lot of success really and made a lot of money touring and self funding his albums.... He is smarter than many thing. Pearla was a mistake but he got 2 kids from it so it was worth it for him I think.
I don't think Duff brought back Slash. Slash brought back Slash. Duff, imo, would've been A-OKAY performing full-time and returning full-time in GN'R with DJ Ashba on lead guitar and Steve Vai on lead guitar 2, or whoever the fuck they would've brought in to replace Bucket. He didn't care.
Duff wants his boys back in GNR. Of course he wanted Slash back in. Always has. But he would have gone back with out Slash too. But getting Slash back in is huge for Duff. That is one of his boys. Have you not read Its So Easy and other lies?
I'm sure these guys are overjoyed to be back together. But this is STILL about the money, and Slash & Duff learned after QUITTING GN'R, that the grass isn't always greener. They're older now, less secure (not more), and know now what it's like to think "i've got nothing to do or go play at... well... I guess it's back to heroin for me"
They were millionaires and at the time dealing with Axl was not worth it and they need to get sober and Duff had to care for his new family. Not everything is 100% about money all the time. Life is happening at that same time. Usually everything works out for the best. We can't assume Axl starts being cool in 1997 and they crank out a killer album... We would have gotten Live Era and GH and still maybe an implosion happens on CD....
Both parties are probably happy for multiple different reasons to have each other back into the fold, and with all of what I said above, is probably the reason none of the negative shit will ever see the light of day. These guys are going to pick up where they left off and just forget the sins of the past imo.
That would be best. Let sleeping dogs lie and rock the fuck out.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
Otto or the Mole I forgot about Slash's drummer Brent Fitz, this guy to me is a blend between Adler and Sorum. He has chops galor like Sorum but has that groove kind of like Adler. What do you two think?
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
Otto or the Mole I forgot about Slash's drummer Brent Fitz, this guy to me is a blend between Adler and Sorum. He has chops galor like Sorum but has that groove kind of like Adler. What do you two think?
Well, I'd say he is VERY solid live (saw Slash live with him twice) but he is an average drummer .. You can listen to the songs on Apocalyptic Love or Word on Fire and the drums will not sound awesome but they do the job. The solidness part may be akin to Sorum, yes, but I think he lacks the swing and feel from Adler.
Adler's best qualities are all over this song (well, with the exception of the cowbell that makes it sound dated) but the more modern recording leaves some of his "dirt" almost unnoticeable. Which is a shame.
Now listen to this:
It's solid, it does the job and gets it done in a competent manner but there's no distinctive style. There are many opportunities for small fills and little touches that I think could've been added.
You could argue that it's a straight forward rocker and it is ok this way and I would agree. But then, listen to this:
A even more straight-forward rocker, a simpler structure from Mr Petty. But notice the little touches on the cymbals, the extra notes on the ride, the different style of conduction on the different parts of the song and the small but distinguishable fills between them. If you can go back and listen to Locomotive, Matt does the same type of things.
By the way, full disclosure: Steven Ferrone is one of my favorite drummers.
I went back and searched for videos of his performances with other artists as well (Vince Neil, BulletBoys) and my perception remains the same but he has many qualities (solid, doesn't play for himself but for the song, drums are merged well with bass and rhythm)
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
I think this most definitely means Adler is out.
http://losangeles.eventful.com/events/a … 89740268-3
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
I think this most definitely means Adler is out.
http://losangeles.eventful.com/events/a … 89740268-3
Why is that? That is a week before Las Vegas.
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
We all agree with this. Axl Rose band could have gone like Ozzy, but he didn't have Ozzy quality, and he wasn't bold enough to go out on his own as Axl Rose. So he kind of took the bitch way out and carried on with just him and Dizzy and all replacements. Pretty lazy but oh well.
This is half right, imo. Calling using the name "the bitch way out" with Axl using the name "Guns N' Roses", is a bit combative and defensive of Slash more than it is objective history telling imo. Axl secured the band name, way before he 'left the partnership' in late 1995. Regardless I don't think Axl had any thought that he was forcing Slash's hand, nor that Slash was going to leave him. One of the most unspoken things in ANY band... YOU NEVER LEAVE.
Now some take this more seriously than others. Even when Izzy left, despite Axl's history with Izzy, Axl was VERY embittered of Izzy's departure and took it as a betrayal of what they had created together, dating all the way back to being in bands like "AXL" & "ROSE" with each other which pre-dated even Hollywood Rose. Axl made many negative comments about Izzy in the late-1991 shows and throughout 1992 about Izzy's leaving as an odd intro to Gilby Clarke, making most of the band obviously uncomfortable. But you could see Axl took it personally. And if Izzy was privately calling him a dictator and a Hitler, which he later publicly did, Axl might've had good cause (in his mind) to take Izzy to task. I believe Axl also felt Izzy used GNR's contacts to swindle (in Axl's mind) the label into pushing Ju Ju Hounds, and there was heat there as well if I remember. But it's been alot of years.
Axl didn't secure the band name out of laziness -- ever. That's just straight up SG being SG, like "Manny being Manny" before you. Axl secured the band name, because he had a band that was falling apart by the early 90's. Whether it happened as early as the 1990 re-negotiation, or as late as Duff's timeline of 1993, either way Axl was the "sane-est" one (that's scary) in a band that featured not 1, not 2, but 3 hardcore heroin addicts and a notorious drunk that was damn near dead from alcohol-poisoning in Duff. We later learned from Duff that Duff was just as neck-deep in heroin addiction as Slash, Izzy, Steven, Kurt or Layne, and that Duff was damn near dead and about died, no different than Kurt & Layne. Steven was out, Izzy was out, and Slash OD'ed in 1992, and Duff looked like he was ate up with Edema and like Elvis '77 by 1993...
Axl protected himself, yes, but Axl also protected Guns N' Roses. The band could die at any moment, and at the time they were LITERALLY the BIGGEST rock band on the planet. Something had to be done. Fast-forward to 1995-96, and suddenly Axl's re-shuffling the band partnership. I agree, that part was a dick move on Axl's part and whether it was Goldstein or someone else that was in his ear, that was THE WRONG thing to do.
But I wouldn't call Axl a bitch and throw him under the bus so much. He had VERY VALID reasons why he made the move he made.
By the time the late 90's came, GN'R had fallen into ruins, and Axl's initial plan was noble imo. He wasn't rebuilding the band to be what he wanted it to be per say, Axl was "rebooting" the band to be an entirely different thing. Think Halloween III, or Michael Mann's "Miami Vice 2006", or when Nolan first dropped "Batman Begins". Hell even Rob Zombie's "Halloween" movies.
Axl was trying to re-invent Guns into an entirely different beast to distance it from its original concepts. Not copy or replace Slash, but make GN'R something totally different than before. He did just that in 2001-02, and it was SO FAR REMOVED from old Guns that people were shocked at their appearence and new sound that they balked at it.
Like you mentioned Ozzy before, there was a quote somewhere that when Axl found and secured Robin Finck to be in Guns that he thought he had found his 'Randy Rhodes'. And that Finck would be the breath of fresh air for Axl, that Rhodes was to Ozzy.
Personally, I don't know what deaf person made that analogy, or maybe it was just an analogy and nothing more, but Robin Finck to Randy Rhodes is like comparing DJ Ashba to Jimi Hendrix. Robin is no Randy, and would've, in NO alternative universe had that effect on Axl's career whether with GN'R or solo. Bucket & Brain were the key, along with Tommy. He had a real band by that point, that could've been one of the most unique rock bands in history, and his Dark Knight Trilogy moment, but he squandered it. Yes -- him. I do not blame Bucket or Brain for that crappy situation. That was Axl's fault. He should've let Robin leave and not come back, Richard should've been put on rhythm, and that 2002 band recorded Chinese, dropped it and ran with the whole freak act. It would've been ballsy and avant garde. It would've been Axl's "Dio Sabbath" moment had he pulled it off.
Yes, makes you respect Slash for how hard he worked to build his brand while Axl kept feeding off that GNR money train with NO WORK
Axl didn't have to work. Axl's not feeding off of anything. That's a Slashite-type comment. Again, defensive. Axl helped build Guns N' Roses into what it was, just as much as Slash. If Axl wants the band name, and to live off of past hype and legend, that is his choice. Now if someone wants to say "look at Dizzy, fuck Dizzy, he didn't write anything on the old records and have lived off of GN'R". That might be a valid argument. It'd be a stupid one, but valid nonetheless.
Axl never had any intention of ending Guns. As far as Axl was concerned, Slash left the band and so did Izzy & later Duff. They quit. The only person that was fired was Steven, and Matt & Gilby don't count, no matter how many people piss & moan in the comment section at Blabbermouth. Why should Axl be out of a job, because the other ones don't want to play in GN'R anymore (again, in Axl's mind)?
Ultimately what Axl did was drop one original record and one live concert Bluray/DVD, and ultimately lived off the past as a nostalgia act. But again... he's allowed to.
I get into this exact same argument all the time with the people who worship John fucking Sykes, like John Sykes invented Whitesnake, and David Coverdale stole all of Sykes music, and was jealous of Sykes looks, and fired him from the band. What a load of shit. Axl isn't GN'R imo the same way Coverdale is Whitesnake, or Corgan is Smashing Pumpkins or Reznor & NIN, but at the same time Axl deserves the respect of being a founding member that made a decision to go the direction he wanted to go. It is what it is.
If Axl had fired all of his GN'R bandmates in a fashion similar to how Coverdale did his bandmates... i'd be in total agreement with you. But he didn't. SLASH put SLASH in the position of having to work his ass off to build his own brand. No one else. Let's be fair & honest here SG like men. Slash made a decision, good or bad, it's the one he made. But he has NO ONE to answer to BUT HIMSELF. SLASH signed HIS rights AWAY from GN'R. And then QUIT the band. And when Axl tried to smooth it over in '96 and bring him back before it went public too badly, Slash still refused and held a hardline. Axl was also fine with Slash having a solo career away from Guns. And Slash still quit. And Axl moved on. And so did Slash.
Slash did a great job building his brand. But starting from the ground up and doing all that was all his fault. Good or bad.
Slash needed that to end at the time. Too toxic.. And he had more freedom solo to just rip on guitar and play GNR covers
Oh bullshit. Slash didn't NEED it to end, no matter how many books cop out and say that or anywhere else. Velvet Revolver after Contraband's release was a proven money-maker, and a valid tour act. I remember the lead-up to Contraband's release the hype that existed, many calling it rock's major supergroup. They grabbed headlines, many looked at it as an attempt at GN'R with a different lead singer, and they had tons of good will from the industry, especially after the trainwreck that had been Axl's 2002 tour and aborted reboot with nuGNR.
These guys had more momentum and hype than Al Gore in the 2000 election, and unlike Gore (who squandered his momentum by surrounding himself with idiot-advisors/strategists, not to mention their hubris), VR actually hit hard and hit good. They lived up to their hype. They rocked hard, had instant arena-rock anthems, and delivered on all the goods Axl was supposed to. It was a total moment of snatching victory from the jaws of defeat.
The problem was they made an album that was very much of its era and their fans expected their music to sound like that. VR was its own thing. It wasn't GN'R on one hand, but it also wasn't STP either. It was VR and they had to stick to that. Another problem they faced was legal issues with playing the songs of GN'R at a time when the relationship between the GN'R & VR camps was very VERY strained. If anything that was toxic.
Slash might've been disappointed in the heroic comeback story of Scott Weiland (another thing promoted to the hilt when Contraband was dropped), and heartbroken at the fall of Scott Weiland which resulted in Libertad and the fast decline of the band during that tour, and ultimately that ended up being the swan song, other than the 2012 one-off reunion show.
But VR was toxic, and Scott was.... blah blah blah..... VR was the biggest thing in the hands of Slash & Duff since GN'R and like Axl squandered his nuGN'R re-invention and release of Chinese, Slash & Duff squandered the second-half of VR. They got love, they delivered, they re-found mainstream fame, won awards and were back on the map... now what the fuck do we do? And they never found that out. Libertad was a half-ass, if not no-ass follow-up, and after that tour ended they just floated it and never figured out what they wanted to do with it. Do we want Myles? Do we want Corey (this was the correct decision) [score +1 for Duff] ? Do we want to try to re-pair our relationship with Scott?
Ultimately they lingered for so long, ala Axl, their ultimate decision ended up being none of those. They ultimately just made it -- Reunite with Axl Rose -- go back to Guns. They gave up on it (even though the audience gave up on it a decade ago). Slash, yes, chose Myles to do a solo stint with, but not under the VR banner.
VR was already on the decline by the end of the 2000's decade, and that was with Scott. It was one of those bands that was a novelty when it hit (think Audioslave as well), and it died because -- it died. Regardless, it was still the biggest non-GN'R thing Slash & Duff had in their back pocket, and they had already toiled around for 7-8 years before that came along. They might've been millionaires, but between 1996-2003, they were certainly reminded that they were very mortal and had mortgages & wives like everyone else. I think if Scott would've known he would've been perminately ousted from STP anyways for Chester, and Duff, Dave & Matt would've hit the unemployment line so quickly... I think there might've been more effort to keep it going.
Slash & Duff not being able to come down to a decision of who to hire as the new singer, both of them not being on the same page, and both of their answers not being the easiest choice (Scott), all collectively buried VR. Their ineptness to make a decision and manage the band's future showed they had the same bullshit issues in that band that Axl had with them in GN'R.
To lay the death of VR solely at the feet of Scott, is unfair to Scott and his memory. Scott had a big part, they all had a part in pinching the loaf that was Libertad. But Scott wasn't all of the part. No different than GN'R dissolved in the mid-90's because from 1990-1996, they ALL had a part in fucking the whole thing up. No just one element.
And still speaking of VR, I also think Slash learned what Keith Richards spoke off in his feud with Mick Jagger in the late 80's. When Keith went solo away from the Stones, he learned what it was to be the frontman of his own band, and have all the responsibility laid at his feet. He then understood where Jagger had stood all those years, and shortly thereafter they reunited for Steel Wheels.
Slash experienced this as well. After the VR situation, and somewhat of The Conspirators, Slash loosened WAY UP on how he spoke of Axl publicly, and at times talked as if he related to him MORE 20 years removed, than he did in 1996. Now they're back together. I think the VR situation on Slash had alot to do with repairing how he saw Axl and in what light and the pressure that was on Axl, and it was thrust on to him as well, to deliver that wasn't on the rest of them. Things changed in how he talked about Axl after that experience.
If Slash hadn't went through it... who knows... he might not be back in GN'R today.
I think you are right. They will admit VR is over soon probably. That band in 1996 would have been better, but the drugs would have been even worse then.
Maybe, but Weiland would've been a fucking train wreck, and I think Slash & Duff creatively had fallen into a black hole during that period. Slash didn't quickly follow-up 5:00, and it took Duff years after Believe In Me to record another record, and one could argue that record was "blink and you'll miss it". Really Duff didn't follow that record up truly, until VR.
Ironically the person with the best ideas and best tunes during that period was.... Axl. Shocking, right? The irony is Axl could've possibly been ready to drop an album or two by the end of the 90's, but Slash & Duff were gone, and probably would've balked at half the material they're gonna wind up playing live in 2016 anyways. Irony isn't a strong enough word for that. I still think GN'R would've suffered the same fate as Metallica did during that period, even if they had stayed together. Internal strife and being too long away from the dance would've probably seen GN'R lost in the shuffle just like Metallica. Metallica released two blues-rock albums and a covers album full of classic rock radio tunes, when they were a metal band at a time when music was getting harder. GN'R theoretically could've put out 1-2 albums of what became Chinese with industrial rockers and UYI leftover ballads and half of the fanbase would've loved the ballads and newbie fans would've loved the rockers, but ultimately it would've been 50% of success, because they would've probably alienated both groups fully from support. Back then, if you weren't Creed, you better damn be Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park or Korn, and GN'R & Metallica just didn't fit in there.
I still think the best time for New GN'R & VR would've been exactly when they existed. Maybe a year or two earlier. Creed, which was the biggest rock band going, had imploded due to internal strife, nuMetal was dead and Industrial Rock had been dead since Hellbilly Deluxe and the dying down of the Marilyn Manson hysteria.
There was a period right around 2002-03, that rock had a void in it. Nothing was really going on. Every medium had sandbagged itself. Had Axl dropped Chinese in the Fall of 2002 and continued that tour into 2003, he would've gotten a bigger reception. VR could've gotten off the ground in 2003 and filled that void. Eventually they did very well in 2004-05, but I have always wondered what would've happened maybe in 2002-03, especially if they would've direct-competed with GNR's business as a touring act. Neither were never really on the road at the same time as each other. Not for an extended period of time. Metallica didn't help by dropping one of their weakest albums in their history in 2003.
Ultimately Nickelback & Shinedown picked up the ball and ran with it for the next several years.
Slash loves to tour. He loves money, but he also loves the spirit of rock n roll too....
I believe they all love the spirit of rock, but it goes back to that Bowie-factor that Niv talked about with Axl. Business-first.
I agree, Slash ain't no dummy. And what Slash has built since the abandonment of VR, is like Axl, having a 2-3 false starts in his career that he kinda fucked up, allowed Slash to figure it out when he did The Conspirators thing. Slash finally found himself a writer, a real one, as opposed to doing all the heavy lifting himself, and he also knew how to brand himself to a point when SLASH was finally it's own brand. "SLASH feat. Myles Kennedy & The Conspirators". See that brand? It's like MTN DEW: White Out--Smooth Citrus DEW. It's not White Out, Smooth Citrus soda... it's apart of the DEW family. That's all you gotta say. Slash finally figured that out and marketed it as such.
No more "Slash's Snakepit". Cheesy and unnecessary. SNAKEPIT would've been a FAR better name actually. Velvet Revolver was it's own band, and frankly Duff never did figure it out. Even Izzy figured it out by dropping the whole "Ju Ju Hounds" thing before they did. All you need is your name, although Izzy doesn't promote, is a ghost, and is certainly not Slash, or Duff for that matter.
SLASH wasn't created for the spirit of rock n' roll. It was created because Slash finally reached a point where he understood brand recognition as equal parts success to the music itself.
Duff wants his boys back in GNR. Of course he wanted Slash back in. Always has. But he would have gone back with out Slash too. But getting Slash back in is huge for Duff. That is one of his boys. Have you not read Its So Easy and other lies?
Bits n' pieces, but again the book has nothing to do with anything. You're assuming Duff's intent was to coerce Axl into putting Slash back in, like he. Like you said, he would've went back anyways. Which defeats the point of, "but he wants his boys back". What boy(s)? Slash seems to be the only one. Only recently has it appeared that he still has some contact with Izzy, he's never come across as being tight with Steven, and frankly Duff seemed to me like he needed a regular gig.
I think the shows in 2014, "Duff just did them as a favor", bullshit. Again I think that's another cover story, like 2010. Duff had to know, when he crossed that mason dixon line in 2014 and performed with Axl's GN'R as THE bassist, without Slash or Izzy or Steven, that was a statement. No different than Izzy in 2012 going off and performing with Axl & Dizzy in new GN'R after blowing off Slash, Duff, Steven & Matt at the Rock Hall. It's a statement. It says something. If they don't know that, then they are the dumbest fucking millionaires this side OF that said mason dixon line.
I remember feeling 2014, even when it was said Duff was just filling in for Tommy, that Duff was back in -- fully. It showed that Duff was fine with playing in GN'R with DJ & Ron & Frank, regardless of whether Slash or Izzy or Steven/Matt are there.
Either Duff's bond with Axl is tighter, or the money is better, but obviously Duff's loyalty to Slash didn't outweigh his want and/or need to have a regular gig, and certainly back in the band he helped found. DJ/Ron being there wouldn't and didn't change that DJ/Ron were in DUFF'S band. Even in 2014, that much was obvious, and you could tell by DJ, Ron, Richard, Frank & Chris' body language they all gave Duff the respect they would Axl, especially with DJ, Ron & Richard being right up beside him. They very much acted as if they were humbled by his presence and were happy to have him there.
Again... it says something. And what it said to me was that Duff was a-okay with the reason he was okay staying in GN'R after Slash quit back in that 1996-97 period. Duff stayed then, and he returned in 2014, and was willing to be there without Slash.
Does he want his boys back? I have no clue, i'm not in his hand and don't know his intent, but his presence spoke volumes and what it said was "i'm willing to move on in GN'R with OR without Slash".
They were millionaires and at the time dealing with Axl was not worth it and they need to get sober and Duff had to care for his new family. Not everything is 100% about money all the time. Life is happening at that same time. Usually everything works out for the best. We can't assume Axl starts being cool in 1997 and they crank out a killer album... We would have gotten Live Era and GH and still maybe an implosion happens on CD....
In fairness, you are right about most of this. For example, earlier in this post I spoke of Duff being in a void in the late 90's, when in reality Duff was trying to get healthy during that period, and that was the reason for his lack of artistic output. But he was probably also in a funk as well, and kind of lost. Regardless of his health, remember he was in GN'R up to 1997, so that was still in his plans up until then.
I don't think Duff's problem however ever came from Axl "not being cool" as you describe it. This was one of the things Axl spoke of about Duff being "spineless" in 2002. When Duff took Axl out to dinner to tell him he was leaving the band, it was never said to him "you've been a ruthless dictator, fuck you, i'm leaving the band... hey pass the biscuits please". This was Axl's beef with Duff. Duff just complained to him the album wasn't coming along quickly, because Axl wasn't making it a priority (let's put it that way), and Duff needed to work, and more than likely cited his addiction issues as well.
Now I don't know what's in Duff's book about this incident, but for years and years THIS was the official story. Duff's issue was the lack of Axl's work ethic in getting the album done. Nothing was ever made of Axl's dictatorial behavior. Duff flees to Slash, and suddenly he starts cutting on Axl about some of Slash & Izzy & Matt's complaints over the years, and that's when Axl spoke out in 2002 about it. Axl never used the word 'blindsided', but yeah... it kinda blindsided him, because that wasn't how Duff left the band. The story changed once he was back in Slash's camp, and then later Duff dropped all of the same stuff Slash had said, and when he started to tell his story in more detail and write a book, alot of those stories reverted back to their original, more logical, and less salacious version.
Regardless, Axl could've had an army of demons in GN'R in 1997 and no force of nature was going to get him to move and record an album.
Axl was emotionally damaged (said so himself), and had seemingly lost his passion for writing. Might've been Stephanie, might've been Slash, might've been Izzy, might've been his mother dying, might've the baseball strike of 1994... who knows... it's Axl.
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
otto wrote:I think this most definitely means Adler is out.
http://losangeles.eventful.com/events/a … 89740268-3Why is that? That is a week before Las Vegas.
And even longer before Coachella.
Come on guys, can we start to be honest here with the pipedream? Steven Adler is not going to be GNR's drummer. There's a better chance of Matt getting it, and most have said -- not happening. Frank is the guy.
However...
I don't think Steven is NOT involved. I think he will be Izzy. Contracted to be a sporadic live touring musician, a recurring special guest, that will make appearances when Adler is not doing stuff.
Everyone thinks this Adler show, buries Steven being involved, and it does not. If anything, Popcorn can perform GN'R tunes with Adler as a warm up, to make his guest appearence.
The only danger here is Steven making a public appearence and spilling all the beans before they come out. His silence has been deafening, especially for a guy that never knows when to shut up (other than the Rock Hall, he did then... unlike Matt 
)
Re: Looks like rehearsals have started!
Eddie Trunk spent around 30 minutes of his podcast talking about GN'R. Pretty good stuff. Best comment about all the secrecy. "GNR knows that they have the craziest, most psychotic fanbase of any band." This was intended as a compliment to us.
I never liked Trunk but I really need to start listening to his show.
AtariLegend wrote:Axlin16 wrote:I don't think this is a proper example.
By the time he recorded his speaking parts for GTA: San Andreas, it would've been at least 2003 , if not 2004.
Can't believe we still don't know the story of how that came about
. Would have been great to have had Axl back in GTA V.
Completely totally agree. Especially considering "The Nightmare" (pardon the pun) that the Chinese sessions were, HOW THE HELL did this collab come about, and Axl agreed to do it, and not only do it, but fucking nailed it.
Said it before but I'll say it again.....the forum chats were a wasted opportunity. Too many dipshits were allowed to ask worthless questions and I wish he ignored that crap so people would've taken the hint. I'd much rather know why Buckmaster and Beltrami are on the same tracks rather than what his favorite hamburger is and would rather know about GTA than if he likes Disneyland.
Does anyone else here post on the Nightrain forum/or have an account currently other than Smoking?
I may have to join the official forum. There was never much of a reason to before but with a reunion underway there is a big chance of there being more focus on official sites if management is taking it seriously.
Folks on MyGNR in the Coachella thread claim first weekend is in danger due to the drummer situation not being solved. Many saying it is bullshit but Teejay and one other heard Matt was told by Duff and Slash he would have involvement and Adler has some kind of an incentive and are trying to get the language right. Basically some think the Band still isn't determined, which we too have wondered. So Axl wants Frank obviously. Slash and Duff want Matt and Steven involved.
I think GNR plays both weekends, but I think some feelings are about to be getting hurt sooner rather than later.
They really need the lineup situation sorted. It should've been resolved before any tour dates were announced. I understand wanting the buzz to continue along with the speculation but a lineup needs to be solidified.
Would be funny if the whole thing implodes before they ever take the stage.
It wouldn't be funny at all to me because if it implodes at this stage, a reunion will NEVER happen.
This is why I'm no longer picky about the potential lineup. Any lineup that is actually going to do something is fine with me. This reunion was on my bucket list and it also dramatically increases are chances for music so any lineup that will actually be productive is fine with me. If its Axl, Slash, Duff, and Pee Wee Herman that are willing to tour and release material, then in the words of Judge Mills Lane..... lets get it on and get it decided.
Probably Adler gets Coachella and Frank will take over when they tour. I don't care so much about Matt's involvment but the fact he said nothing to TMZ makes me believe they talked to him one way or the other. Either to tell him he's not invited but they'd appreciate if he could shut up for the moment (maybe even some monetary incentive for it) or he's involved on some level.
The only reason i don't see Adler involved for the long run is his substance abuse and inconsistency. I hope he can pick himself up and it would be great. But Frank is definitely in at least as a back-up plan.
Yeah Sorum's silence spoke volumes. Also agree that frank will be involved in some aspect even if Adler/Sorum are in. If anything goes down, he can take over without hesitation or the need for cancellations/postponements.
I wonder if Axl was fine with going to Coachella and moving on with Guns with Axl, Slash, Richard, Duff, Frank, Dizzy & Chris, and didn't think anything beyond that, until the media went nuts and hyped up GN'R to the point they could command $3-4 million a show, just based off of media hype. I also wonder if the media pressure has forced his hand to bring Izzy, Steven & Matt in on this and that was never really the plan to begin with.
Very interesting point. This would help explain the way it went from a massive hype initially to virtual silence. They are unsure themselves on how far to take this.
