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Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
FlashFlood wrote:Apex-Twin - didn't see any links to an article, assuming you wrote it. Nice work!
The period of 1994-1998 is the most fascinating period of Guns to me. You have the whole Huge incident, sessions with Zakk Fucking Wylde (leaks of which I would gladly take over any additional ChiDem tracks), and sessions that were essentially the combo of new/old guns with Axl/Duff/Matt/Robin/Paul. Just this big black hole where I'm sure there were some unbelievable or at the very least interesting things that were recorded that never materialized.
Still waiting to hear that recording of Shaq rapping along with Paul, Tommy, and Dizzy's playing from the so called "vault".
Haha, according to Shaq it wasn't so much a recording as it was him being in the next room and ending up fucking around with the band.
- Me_Wise_Magic
- Rep: 70
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
Haha..true! I still want to hear it though in some shape or form for the humor and randomness of it all.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
Paul Huge and Slash never really hashed out their working relationship, which had been enforced by Axl since the Sympathy for the Devil sessions almost two years ago. "Paul will play on the song, Paul will write songs, Paul will rehearse with the band..." Paul must've looked good on a photo that day.
Later that month, Slash admitted to have lapsed into a suicidal depression over his position in Guns. He quit the next morning, with a month-long resignation period. Axl had made up his mind, Paul Huge wasn't going anywhere. Axl might've thought his old buddy would made a wonderful replacement for Izzy, to have that Lafayette songwriting mojo back in Guns. He might've entertained the notion of dismissing Paul to appease Slash - but if Paul read well in Yoda's mind, he would benefit Axl's album, right?
The thing is – and it tends to get overlooked in all the talk of Slash storming out 'cause Paul recorded the call-and-response solo on SOTD – Axl was right. Paul is a very good songwriter. Okay, Back Off Bitch isn't the greatest track on Illusions, but Paul's co-writing credits include:
Oh My God
Chinese Democracy
Street of Dreams
There Was A Time
Catcher in the Rye
Riad N' The Bedouins
I.R.S.
Prostitute
That's a pretty fucking good track record. Arguably the best songs on the album, in fact.
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
I guess we would need to know exactly what context the co-writer credit was received on each track before we could make our own conclusions...did he come up with chord progressions? The lyrics? Was he just in the room? We don't know...aside from him having some sort of input on the evolution on those particular songs...
If anything it shows us what the 1999 album may have looked like ... in part, cuz dizzy, Robin and Tommy also share credits on those tracks in one form or the other as well
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
[ Paul must've looked good on a photo that day.
This cracked me up.
Great thread. Mind boggling/blowing.
They (Slash & Axl) really did not have a handle on their emotions. So embittered over relatively frivolous CRAP that escalated in ridiculous and bizarre fashion. There was no common sense to any of it. A pretty puerile divorce all told. What a fuckin waste.
As an aside/alt history/speculation: if Slash doesn't do Snakepit, does Axl still find cause to fuel the split? If Slash continues to appease Axl where would it have led?
- dalethirsty
- Rep: 20
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
The 99 album is so interesting.
Those early leaks sound so good. Very classic GNR.
i really wish we had the chance to hear this album. there was something truly unique about those early recordings -- to me, it was more of an industrial/electronic sound with gnr influences; when cd finally was released, it had the base sound of the early "demos", but had been dicked around with for a decade until it became a compromise of sounds. after axl thought the world was uninterested in his new direction, he kept backtracking and overdubbing until he thought he had a record that would make everybody happy. instead, he pissed off he hardcore fans who wanted the raw sean beaven album we'd been promised, and alienated the original guns fans with a strange, haphazard suite of wacky songs that seemingly had little to do with each other.
at times, i'm slightly more biased towards the 03/04 version of the record with bucket involved, but the original presentation of axl's vision would be a fascinating listen.
i do agree w/ flashflood, though -- the 96/97 demos would be AMAZING to hear. i'd pay a pretty penny to hear some of those original demos/sketches the band put together before imploding.
maybe we'll get lucky after the tour dies down. after reading the slash quote referenced in the '96 page of chinese whispers, i have hope:
"[The 1996 tracks are] not something I would want to approach (without Slash), because, at the time, there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. [...] That's the reason why that material got scrapped." (Axl, press release, 08/14/02)
perhaps axl is interested is picking up where the original band left off?
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
As an aside/alt history/speculation: if Slash doesn't do Snakepit, does Axl still find cause to fuel the split? If Slash continues to appease Axl where would it have led?
Well, we can only guess, but.
I've always felt that disbanding the partnership was a retaliation to Snakepit. Remove that from the equation and keep those three-four tracks in the Guns pool and maybe, the partnership would've kept up.
Paul would've, in all likelihood, still gotten involved. With Dizzy, he was Axl's ghost writer, anyway. As for the album...
"I originally wanted to make a traditional record or try to get back to an "Appetite [For Destruction]" thing or something, because that would have been a lot easier for me to do. I was involved in a lot of lawsuits for Guns N' Roses and in my own personal life, so I didn't have a lot of time to try and develop a new style or re-invent myself, so I was hoping to write a traditional thing, but I was not really allowed to do that." (Axl, MTV interview, 11/08/99)
"So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else." (Axl, press release, 08/14/02)
"Axl treated the situation as if he and I were the two most important factors in the whole thing. He tried to convince me it was all good, that it was something he and I were doing as partners. He was trying to draw me into his world, to show me his version of things in his way, which is a very nice way, but I just didn't go for it." (Slash, Autobiography)
The resulting album could've had some Snakepit songs, a song reminiscent to Fall to Pieces and some (versions of) CD songs. A hard-rock album, with 12 songs or more. Somewhat a stopgap release, with Slash's guitar wailing over a heavily modified soundscape. Do note that it's quite possible the CD saga could've unfolded anyway, as Slash might've just as well packed up after that album.
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
I think it was all inevitable. Look at it from Axl's perspective.
You're completely dissatisfied with the Use Your Illusion albums, feeling that they suffered due to band in-fighting and being rushed to market. The good news is that they've propelled Guns N' Roses to monumental heights but the bad news is that after the record-breaking 2.5 year Use Your Illusion tour, the only way from there is down. Relatively shortly after, you release an it-feels-good-so-fuck-it cover album called The Spaghetti Incident and it gets slaughtered by critics.
The music industry is changing, grunge has emerged and industrial rock is burgeoning. You clearly see that it's time for Guns N' Roses to adapt or die. Yet your band is still fighting amongst themselves, still using drugs, and you've noticed political factions emerge. Your personal life is not doing much better - another failed relationship, this one especially devastating. Your alcoholic, drug-addled lead guitarist now rivals you for control of the band. This clown who has mocked some of your best work as a band, who trashes you in the press, who refuses to meet you half-way? He's not my equal. Fuck that guy.
Your world is chaos and you're desperately looking for an anchor, trying to control an overwhelming situation. So, you bring in Paul Tobias, a longtime friend from Indiana, who is dedicated and actually shares your vision of pushing your music in a new direction. He's supportive. The rest of the band, not so much, either outright servile (Sorum), couldn't give a fuck about your point of view (Slash), or losing your nerve for the band (Duff).
The ship is sinking, your crew-mates have essentially manned their own life boats and are heading in different directions, and yet in order to keep your career afloat you need to steer into uncharted waters.
Broken glass and cigarettes
Writing on the wall
It was a bargain for the summer
And I thought I had it all
- dalethirsty
- Rep: 20
Re: Curtain Call for the Old Guns '96
i feel bad for paul, honestly. the guy was just trying help his ol' buddy axl out with creating new material. i can't name an interview with the dude -- he obviously wasn't doing this for fame or money or to springboard his own career or anything like that. he didn't even want to tour or anything! he just wanted to write some cool new songs for guns.
what was he gonna do in this situation.... tell axl no? slash comes off as more of a dick here than axl/paul, imo.
