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- Topics: Active | Unanswered
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
Good point monkey. The point I am referring to is Axl has is own guys, and still can't get anything good enough.
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
SG, quality isn't an issue, I don't think the hold up in releasing stuff is in Axl's court. I think the problem is now what the problem was before CD = The label and money. I think we've all learned enough about the CD saga to know it didn't come down to Axl just not wanting to release anything. Right?
I just don't see where writing the riff always equals to making a good song. There seems to be more than that and what inspires Axl. And to Axl's credit, he did say there were ideas from Slash that he liked, which Slash buried. Take that how you like.
Paul Tobias? His songwriting was weak, his playing was awful. Being Axl's friend does not equal with music talent. I don't even understand this Tobias cult some seem to believe in. Even Tommy admitted that Tobias' ideas sucked. I guess the hidden purpose is to bash Slash's songwriting skill once again, like he would have needed a bedroom guitarist to come up with anything worthy. FYI Paul Tobias couldn't be even a guitar tech in Slash's band. A terrible guitarist and his involvement in GN'R is one of the saddest chapters of the music history.
This... All of this... Wrong. Not one ounce of truth. All made up stuff. Tobias cult? Bad playing? Made up. And no, this is not a personal insult Mikka, since I have to clarify every interaction with you that way now.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
At the end of the day slash outputs an album every couple of years, and Axl is still unable to deliver. If the problem was Slash, why don't DJ and Paul smash out a new album for Axl this year? I guarentee you DJ would do it in a heartbeat.
BOOM!! there it is.
And lets not forget that Bucket and Robin gave up also. So it begs the question...
What the fuck do you actually want from your lead guitar player???
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
I want my guitar player to bust out guitar parts like Coma, Locomotive, Estranged...yep, Axl and Slash on their own could still be gold....don't even need Izzy involved. I do realize that what Izzy brought made them much more intersting. However, you can't discount just an Axl/Slash tune like the three I mentioned...and those are all Axl and Slash. So, Tobias really wasn't needed if Axl and Slash could have settled their differences.
Now, a Tobias/ Slash thing could have worked had they gotten along...like ID said, I would kill to hear Slash on TWAT, Catcher, IRS and Prostitute (songs that just so happen to be my favorite Chinese tracks). 
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
I didn't think they would have needed a rythym player, either. I guess that's what I kind of mean, just have Paul as a writing partner to fill up an album. Axl & Slash weren't going to crank out songs like Coma and Locomotive all the time. That was like two songs out of thirty from those sessions that took years? I hate Fall To Pieces, but it would be interesting to see what it could have been. I doubt it would be like what was released.
At the end of the day slash outputs an album every couple of years, and Axl is still unable to deliver. If the problem was Slash, why don't DJ and Paul smash out a new album for Axl this year? I guarentee you DJ would do it in a heartbeat.
BOOM!! there it is.
And lets not forget that Bucket and Robin gave up also. So it begs the question...
What the fuck do you actually want from your lead guitar player???
But those consistant albums (Slash and DJ) pretty much suck, so what does it matter how active they are? 
It is all a matter of taste, I know that, but that argument just doesn't carry anything when the output is just so mediocre. Not trying to offend, just my opinion. I know people don't like CD, but I think its great and worth the wait, for me. And again, I don't think the hold up has ever solely been Axl not wanting to release anything. I mean, shit, how much information has come out about how many times he was ready to release it but outsiders screwed it up? So, can we dispell the myth that he just refused to release anything during all that time?
- Son of a Gun
- Rep: -3
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
They always needed solid rhythm player with all due respect to Slash, he is n`t Page, Blackmore, Iommi, Rhoads, Cantrell or even Dimebag. He`s very good lead player but he needs second rhythm guitarist to compliment him. His rhythm playing is patchy and UYIs are clear example of it. " Locomotive ", for instance, terribly misses Izzy`s guitar.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
But those consistant albums (Slash and DJ) pretty much suck, so what does it matter how active they are?
We'll agree to disagree on that.
Yes they are not as good as original GNR, but again, that comes back to Axl not wanting to put his part with it.
Have you ever heard the VR demo "Pleasin"? Notice how much better the same song got with Ian on it as "Ghost"? Imagine how much better again it would be with Axl doing his thing with them. The snakepit 95 songs are even more pronounced.
Seriously, have a listen to something like "Dime Store Rock" - try and block out the vocals - and consider those raw guitar parts being delivered to a pre-AFD Axl....If Axl did his thing with him...they'd at least get to the level of a UYI rocker...something like a "you could be mine". The guitar is GOOD....the reason it's not all GNRish is simply not having Axl put his vocal melodies, not having Axl's delivery, and not having Axl's song structures.
Now, in Axl's defence in this, I believe his side of that story is that he was offered those songs but told not to mess with them. Which is why I think it all comes down to the same miscommunications as always.
The things that started when Axl became CEO. Axl behind a wall of handlers. Things like the others wait for him in the studio till from 2pm - 2am and he doesn't show till 5am. They compound misunderstandings.
In Duff's version Axl rejected every song played to him for something like 2 or 3 years. Every song. It's probably because he was just inspired by another sound like NiN or something at the time but - I can totally see why in this environment at some point the others just got so frustrated they made the stupid call to tell Axl to take or leave it as is...they didn't want another 2 year UYI wait...which the way things were would be even worse.
I think the truth is in the middle. I do think there are times where the other GNR guys are too keen to keep the ball rolling and don't develop stuff enough. Yet we have also seen Axl's extreme of taking a year or 5 more for minor cosmetic changes.
It is all a matter of taste, I know that, but that argument just doesn't carry anything when the output is just so mediocre. Not trying to offend, just my opinion. I know people don't like CD, but I think its great and worth the wait, for me.
Chinese democracy is a great album. But it's notable to me that there are NO rockers of the kind the old band would have given him on there. There are modern versions of Axl's epic ballads, and there's Axl's take on a more industrial style sound.
To me it's quite telling, I honestly think Axl isn't interested in guitar based music anymore.
I think you could give him the riff to brownstone today and nothing would happen with it.
And that's what it comes down to. Something like Jungle or Brownstone with no axl would be just as "mediocre" as you're accusing the solo stuff of being. It would be a great guitar riff but probably end up with a singer that added average words, a song structure that did nothing much, and the whole thing would be much like snakepit - cool if you like the guitar and the style but probably slightly tragic and dated to everyone else.
So I dunno we can blame DJ, Bucket, Slash, Izzy and anyone else and kind of say to ourselves "look in isolation, there alone they are not able to replicate the entire GNR sound" but what it comes back down to to me is that the starting-pieces, the building blocks, the foundations....WERE there of another GNR record...and you can hear them all over the solo albums of Izzy, Duff, Slash from the 90s....if properly developed those songs could clearly have become GNR....so it comes back to the management issue of what politics was going on in the band that made that not happen....and then to me that comes back to the situation that EVERYONE eventually walked on Axl.....it doesn't make him a bad guy....but I think it shows the situation just became checkmated for people....otherwise why the fuck would someone like Duff walk from something he'd created and one of the biggest bands in the world?
And again, I don't think the hold up has ever solely been Axl not wanting to release anything. I mean, shit, how much information has come out about how many times he was ready to release it but outsiders screwed it up? So, can we dispell the myth that he just refused to release anything during all that time?
YEah, but he created that situation.
He quits the band, asks the old members to join a new one. Fundamentally alters the bands sound, treats everyone as his employees, disrespects them endlessly by not showing up, causing unreasonable delays, removing parts they played, never being available for communication. These things drove out not only every original member but also almost all of the replacement line up too. The only reason the modern act stays 'together' is they're casualised to the extent that the guys in the band have no idea what will happen in the band and spend all their time in other projects. What's the purpose of DJ quitting when he's currently in the studio with Sixx Am anyway, or Richard who is with Dead Daisies, or bumble who is on a solo tour. They just wait for the phonecall to find out if anything will happen.
So Axl apointed himself CEO and started running things this way, but we're supposed to ignore those facts and simply look at the times he's been a victim. I don't dispute he's been fucked around by some people.
But why does it not happen to every other band? The industry is full of sharks for everyone. Every band has creative and personal differences. Every record label is only interested in the money. Every fan prefers the original line up of any band. Most artists experience a ton of horrors and problems.
But GNR is the act that has become artistically crippled by these events.
Maybe if the label are dicks it's not best to send fernando in as negotiator? Maybe if Axl wasn't "in the shower" when anyone came to discuss things with him there would be a resolution.
The bottom line is that when the guys were equal partners the band worked. Sure there was some fucking bullshit going on. But they put out AFD, UYI, Lies and so on....shit got done. The inability to finish nearly anything dates exclusively from when Axl's personal life went to hell....and then when he took control of the band.
So sure, the old guys should have worked better with Paul. And that would have made the songs better I think. Because Axl can sing anything and make it good, and slash can probably improve almost any guitar song too. But the question is...who made the situation that led them into walking out on paul.....
Re: Slash and Paul Tobias
Slash sounds great on those rythym parts, unless I'm hearing something totally different.
Monkey, that might have been the longest post you've ever written 
I understand where you're coming from, and Axl defintiely played a part in the delay, no doubt, my point was that it wasn't based soley on him not wanting to release anything, because that's simply not true. And I disagree with Axl not liking guitar-based music anymore. The problem with CD was that there are TOO MANY guitars, drowning out everything. I think people put too much stock in riffage. Really, I can only handle so much AC/DC rock. I love Queen, and Brian May isn't a riff guy. Same with Floyd, etc.
