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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
With apologies to Rus....I sometimes think about how GNR would have gone down differently if Robin had not been chosen as the replacement.
Seems to me a large part of the resentment to the new band came around because Robin's sound and appearance at the key time were unacceptable to fans of hard rock and GNR. There's a reason DJ is less hated - he plays the songs closer to how they go and he looks like he is in a rock band (all be it an awfully post modernish motley). Robin fixed those things a little in 06 compared to 2000 - but it was too late - the damage was done.
I'd also speculate that the Bucket/Robin tension was unhelpful for getting anything done well creatively and indeed helped bucket quit the band.
Then finally when they have an album ready despite all that...he quits at the cusp of release...meaning the band who tours the album now has neither of the guitarists who recorded most of it....and destroying any chance of videos or decent promo about GNR as an actual band and not just Axl's hobby project.
I'm not saying everything is his fault...but if they'd recruited a more solid lead player with chops and dedication to the band and a suitable image in the first place then new GNR could have become at least a VR type rebirth of GNR rather than the industry comedy sketch it became in that era.
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
It would have been no different. Period. End of story. Only guy that matters is Axl. It's all in his yard. He makes all decisions. He decided to sit on the sideline and tinker the album to death. No one elses. I can make the case Robin had the patience of a saint. No way anyone, DJ included, would have stuck around as long as he did.
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
Robins a bitch
two time quitter and left Axl cold
patience? what the fuck has he done in 4 years?
He better hope Trent doesn't chop him off his nuts again either.
.... besides successful tours, two albums and Ceelo Green's album? Blow it out your bitchhole. You'd lick Slash's asshole no matter how many times he "quit Axl."
Do you even think before you hit submit?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
It would have been no different. Period. End of story. Only guy that matters is Axl.
To an extent I agree...I mean after all it is Axl's band/company/brand these days...however I also disagree because I think Axl seems to be quite reactionary to things that happen.
There are times he's seemed very positive about the band and times where he goes silent and things derail.
So I think if the general public had liked the 2000/2002 band better - which I think they would have without Robin - Axl's conduct would be different. If the label had been happier with his product - which they might have without Robin - Axl might have done different things. If Robin hadn't bailed right before release...who knows what Axl might have done differently. When shit goes wrong he gets upset then more shit goes wrong.
So yeah...Axl might be to blame maybe but it doesn't happen in isolation.
I'm not a Robin hater as such, I saw him with NIN and he looked and sounded great in that context...really liked his style in that setting....I think he was just not right for GNR at any stage...maybe for a different GNR Axl planned that never came to fruition...but given the classic hits setlist live, and the way the songs that came out of the writing team remained mostly epic ballads....Robin was just not the man for the job...and while I enjoy a couple of his parts on CD....overall his presence in GNR generally did more harm than good I think. A different guitarist around 2000 would have made for a very different GNR and a very different public perception of the validity of kicking out the old band.
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
the robin debate is still an interesting one.
in general i agree w/MC's assessment.
i still struggle to see his potential value to GnR, never mind his actual contributions.
having said that, i like some of his stuff on CD. most of it however doesn't measure up & i don't see how he was ever going to create something great enough to be GnR worthy.
if axl had had the guts then robin woulda been an interesting choice for his solo output. but in terms of being GnR i still don't see how robin fit in or was gonna improve things.
- elevendayempire
- Rep: 96
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
I agree that Robin pretty much dicked over GN'R. Just as they were about to release the album – with a video designed to showcase the new line-up – he ups and leaves, throwing all the promotional efforts into confusion.
In his defense, he'd probably heard the phrase "Oh, we're just about to release the album" once too often. And there are clearly no hard feelings, what with him turning up at that one show to belt out Better (why not This I Love? WHY?).
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
misterID wrote:It would have been no different. Period. End of story. Only guy that matters is Axl.
To an extent I agree...I mean after all it is Axl's band/company/brand these days...however I also disagree because I think Axl seems to be quite reactionary to things that happen.
There are times he's seemed very positive about the band and times where he goes silent and things derail.
So I think if the general public had liked the 2000/2002 band better - which I think they would have without Robin - Axl's conduct would be different. If the label had been happier with his product - which they might have without Robin - Axl might have done different things. If Robin hadn't bailed right before release...who knows what Axl might have done differently. When shit goes wrong he gets upset then more shit goes wrong.
So yeah...Axl might be to blame maybe but it doesn't happen in isolation.
I'm not a Robin hater as such, I saw him with NIN and he looked and sounded great in that context...really liked his style in that setting....I think he was just not right for GNR at any stage...maybe for a different GNR Axl planned that never came to fruition...but given the classic hits setlist live, and the way the songs that came out of the writing team remained mostly epic ballads....Robin was just not the man for the job...and while I enjoy a couple of his parts on CD....overall his presence in GNR generally did more harm than good I think. A different guitarist around 2000 would have made for a very different GNR and a very different public perception of the validity of kicking out the old band.
Robin was perfect for that line up. It just sounds like you just didn't care for it. 
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
You guys pointing that Robin visuals would affect perception?
There was a guy WITH A FRIED CHICKEN BUCKET ON HIS HEAD, ffs!
And about the live performances: only who would check on bootlegs or youtube would be complaining that they were different from Slash. I know that nowadays most people look up to Youtube to check how the band is/looks/sounds but that wasn't the case yet in 2002.
2002 was the first wave of heat, of haters and the "they aren't Slash" bashing. It was much smaller in 2006 (even with Robin) and way Smaller in 2012.
Had Axl kept GN'R active it would have reached 2012 standards before...
Re: "Better" Video Discussion
My feelings on Robin are well documented, so I won't rehash those. To some extent I don't think it mattered. Axl was/is the problem. The other problem was/is management.
Having said that, there's certainly something to the whole freak show reaction to the VMAs, but I think the bigger problem wasn't that they weren't GnR, but that it didn't even sound/feel like GnR. It goes back to the name debate, and I don't want to get that started, but you have to understand that no matter how good the musicians were, it was pretty much Axl only and they didn't sound like GnR; some people weren't going to accept that no matter what. Others didn't like what they heard. Others didn't like what they saw. The point is that there were enough reasons for people to not like it...I don't think everybody decided not to like it just because Slash wasn't there.
I think there where's Slash thing was just people piling on because it was an easy position to take. I think if all those people were honest, not all of them would cite that as their #1 reason for not liking it.
