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Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
I've walked a few miles in plenty of shoes, and suicide would have been an easy way out several times in my life. Somehow I managed to come out all right, and not because I am supernatural.
Suicide, like everything else, is a choice. We all make choices in life, then want to blame life and not the choices for where we end up.
Axlin, I had my mother in the exact same situation - she had never been healthy for as long as I can remember until she died a few years ago (she had a return of cancer and several other ailments). It sucked, but killing herself was never an option for her. Why? Because that's the decision she made.
If suicide is the decision you make; if not taking your meds is the decision you make; if not seeking help is the decision you make, then you can't blame life for what happens and you can't blame people for not feeling sorry for you. Everybody on this planet goes through hardships. People in a lot of countries would kill (literally) for some of the "problems" people in the US have killed themselves over.
It's not being mean; it's recognizing that a person made a series of poor decisions to get to that point.
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
Maybe it's not mean but it's pretty damn righteous. This whole idea that other's have bigger problems is bullshit. Your problems are not mine, mine are not yours and to each individual the problems affect us differently. To even begin to say someone who committs suicide in North America is a pussy cause people in other countries have way bigger problems is asinine. It's not even remotley a relevant point. I'm shocked you even brought that up. And just because you chose not to comitte suicide does't mean the person who did or attempted doesnt' deserve sympathy or compassion. The fact you didn't committe or attempt suicide Buzzsaw says that it was never a serious consideration on your part thus you've never been in that dark a place to relate. Maybe that's why you can't sympathsize. But believe me people don't casually say "Oh suicide would've been the easy way out many times but I managed to come through ok." No. Suicide becomes a legit option once and then if by the stroke of luck it doesn't end there, you're gonna tell me the person who comes out the other side doesn't deserve your sympathy or compassion?
Unless you've attempted it you've never been there. Don't cmpare your problems to others.
Also people in these situations do seek help. Not all but a lot. My girlfriend sure as fuck did. Took her meds, seeks counciling, called all the time when things were seemingly impossible. When people suffer through depression some aren't able to see another way out. That's a pretty dark and lonely place to be and just because you, your mom or other's managed to crawl out does not mean those who couldn't don't deserve sympathy. For anyone to sit back and say they've walked a few miles in plenty of shoes then say just because you made a different choice that other's don't deserve sympathy is pretty righteous dude. You've NEVER walked a mile in another person's shoes. NEVER. If you've walked a mile in these shoes you know how difficult it is/was for THEM. Some people aren't built with the same type of resolve and when in a situation maybe for them there is only one way out. Everyone isn't Buzzsaw.
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
It's not being mean; it's recognizing that a person made a series of poor decisions to get to that point.
Words cannot express how short-sighted and ignorant of a statement this is.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to sum up life's failures. It's always the person's fault, never the situation. *sarcasm*
Maybe that's the reason the world never changes. People try to wrap things like this up in a neat little package like you did.
Come back when deeper you get.
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
There's no need to get deeper. Help is available all over the place, it doesn't matter what your situation is. Homeless? There's help for that. Wife left you? There's help for that. Drug issues? There's help for that. One of the benefits of the pussification of America is that there are all kinds of social programs out there. All you have to do is ask.
More importantly, there's help available BEFORE things hit rock bottom. It's a series of poor choices that lead people into those situations, it rarely if ever just pops up out of nowhere. You can ignore it, you can seek help, or you can be aware of it but hope it just goes away.
See, unless you're talking about something like 9/11 and your choice is being burned to death or jumping out a window or sudden unexpected death of a loved one, the situation doesn't just appear out of nowhere. It's a gradual process. Relationships don't end out of thin air, there are always signs. Certainly there are exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority (90%+) are as a result of a string of bad decisions/choices along the way and not a sudden event. Bad choices include ignoring warning signs, not seeking help, thinking it will go away on its own, etc.
Every situation is unique. It's very sad that people see suicide as their only way out when even in the 9/11 example, it almost never is (I think it never is, but I'll include almost in case there's a real exception out there). Maybe the reason the world never changes is that people feel sorry for people and always make excuses for it instead of having the expectation of accepting responsibility for their actions.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
What you're saying is a "Just World" theory - that we live in a society and a universe that is essentially fair - consequences are always exact, measured, fair and comparable to the efforts of those that they happen to.
I don't see the world as anything like that at all, and while you can talk about the pussification of society, I see the belief in a just world concept as simply a cute fairytale for people who are well off and essentially lucky to tell themselves to hope cope with the awful sight of having to witness the suffering and sorrow of everyone who is less lucky than us.
The homeless and poor suffer but it's a little easier to sleep at night if we blame them for what's happened to them.
Suicide is nothing more than a person feeling more emotional pain than they are equipped to deal with mentally. Calling them cowards or similar is disgusting.
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
You don't even remotely get it Buzzsaw. Suicidal thoughts come down to a mental and emotional state. not whether you lost your job or got a divorce. Some are better equipped to handle it and despite how hard you try to simplify it suicidal thoughts don't only fester in those who have hardships in life. For some people it's a depression issue and regardless of whether they seek help or not for THEM not you, the feelings of sadness are overwhelming and can't be explained. It's rather insulting for you to sit there and preach about what others should do and dumb down their situations as though each individual is bummed out over something as simple and black and white as a lost job, a divroce, a loss of a loved one etc etc etc. You are simply talking hardships and people packing it in because they've had a rough go.
Get back to me when you wake up everyday without the desire to live when your life on the surface is actually pretty damn good. THAT is what you are not getting. Some people suffer from serious depression and suicide is a daily thought that they cannot shake despite the help they seek. Is it personal for me? You bet your fucking ass it is and it's because I've watched someone I care about go through it. It scared the shit out of her as to why she had these feelings, she seeks help and these thoughts and emotions still remain. She didn't want to die but the feelinsg were overwhelming for her and she was scared of herself. My brother didn't seek out any help or give any hints. I sympathize where he must've been because that's pretty dark and lonely place to be if a person is that low that they just end it. You can be callous if you want but depression is a legit medical issue and people who suffer with it do deserve some sympathy and compasion. Not the righteous judging them from a distance because they handled their problems "better".
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
What you're not getting is that I've been there. I made the decision to get help. I saw what was going on, other people saw what was going on and had been trying to help for a while, but the only one that could fix it was me. I woke up one day and decided I didn't want to live that way anymore, so instead of pulling out a gun or a razor, I sought out help. I changed, or at least I adjusted.
So don't tell me what I don't get. I get it 100%. I don't know how serious I was about doing it (it was quite a while ago now), but I can tell you it wasn't just a passing thought. It's a choice and there's absolutely nothing you're going to say that's going to change my opinion on that. I still fight depression. Every day. I'm not a recovering alcoholic, I'm a recovering depressionholic (or whatever you want to call it). The urge never completely goes away. I have to remind myself constantly that on those "bad days" it could be a whole lot worse to avoid starting back down that path. Once it starts snowballing down that path, it's hard to get it stopped, so I choose not to allow it to get started. I choose that.
I empathize with people, but I don't sympathize. It's a relatively minor difference, but it is a difference. It's kind of like when people get blasted at a sporting event, then fall to their death. It's sad, but so avoidable with a simple decision to drink, but not drink too much.
Re: Tony Scott Kills Himself
There's no need to get deeper. Help is available all over the place, it doesn't matter what your situation is. Homeless? There's help for that. Wife left you? There's help for that. Drug issues? There's help for that. One of the benefits of the pussification of America is that there are all kinds of social programs out there. All you have to do is ask.
There's help, yes.
The question is asking for it. Then, it becomes an issue of surviving to the next meeting with the helper. The responsibility to live the day without letting them negative notions slip under your skin.
That's not just one moment, it's a series of consecutive moments, where a person may try very hard to better his/her situation. A person is understandably in a quite vulnerable state at that point, with the environmental responses drawing the line on the world with or without you.
If positivity happens, the person has a shot to pull out of that unfortunate predicament that has just been evaded. But imagine you get a VERY bad day (which sometimes just happens out of nowhere to any one of us) just the day after you decide to live again. A person is suggestible in that state, and bad experience may lead to bad conclusions.
It's a big choice to go against the tidal wave and decide to stick around. Eventually, life gets better if you stay positive and seek out its good sides. But it's not an easy road by any chance and those who feel its too much for them, I think we need to give them the benefit of doubt.
Most people who end their lives have, up to that point, felt miserable, alone and afraid for whatever reasons. Even if we wouldn't agree with their actions, I personally feel they do warrant our sympathies during the course that led them to that point.
