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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
Don't have the time to read all the arguing over the HOF, but I have a question for all sides of that debate.... does your stance apply only to GNR or all bands?
For me it would apply to all bands, but I think the effect is magnified with GNR due to a couple of factors:
* The old band hasn't been seen together in decades
* the feuds and history (axl/slash) (Steven getting fired /Matt)
* GNR at it's prime was the biggest band of it's time for that couple of years there and so was of massive cultural importance to people of my generation at least.
* GNR "should" be dead. Duff could have drunk himself to death. Steven and Slash OD'd, Izzy pissed off the wrong person in a deal, and Axl probably goes out in some kind of murder suicide or death by cop deal. That's what we all thought would happen. Here we are fucking 30 years on and they're all in pretty good shape considering. Would be nice to give them a pat on the back,
* one of the key things with GNR was always CAN WE ASSEMBLE THE WHOLE BAND?? - it was like fucking voltron or something. Will Axl refuse to go on stage or bail after a song? Will Slash be dead in an elevator before a show? Will Izzy be in the same state as the gig? Will Steven be able to play at all? Is Duff passed out? Will they all be alive at show time and will I survive going? These kind of doubts were always around with GNR more so than other bands, and so I think psychologically it's more important in this case for the full band to be there.
So yeah i'd say in principle it applies to all bands...but more so with GNR.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
The moment someone explains to me about The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is about "the fans" is the moment I believe Izzy and Axl "owe" someone something.
My thing is though russ is this:
When someone does a guest appearance isn't it about the fans?
When Izzy plays with Axl. When Steven Tyler played with GNR. When Slash pulls out Zakk.
It's about the friendships and playing with their mates for fun, but a good deal of it is also that it's recognised that fans will enjoy it.
Conversely, when someone is invited to an event and doesn't show up, I'm pretty sure they realise that it will upset the fans.
Getting all 5 guys in one place to take a collective bow for their careers was massive to some of us.
So it's not that Izzy owes me...but just as he can see that I'd like it when he turns up at random the other night, he should see that I'll be disappointed when he doesn't come to something he was invited to, and where there's a reasonable expectation of his attendance.
(by expectation I mean say he's been invited to an industry event and not to my personal birthday party etc)
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
russtcb wrote:This.
If I remember right, john and I don't agree on a ton, but he's gone and pulled this:
http://thisweconfess.files.wordpress.co … e-head.jpg
The moment someone explains to me about The Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame is about "the fans" is the moment I believe Izzy and Axl "owe" someone something.It doesn't matter that it's an industry jerk off. So are the Grammys. So are all the award shows for all the industries. That doesn't mean that fans don't like seeing the artists they enjoy being recognized at those events.
If these events weren't for the fans, HBO wouldn't be spending money for the rights to air the event. Media wouldn't be there reporting to the fans. All of the GnR sites wouldn't have had pages of threads discussing it before, during, and how many months after...
It's okay to hate the RRHoF. Don't think for a second that just because it means nothing to you means that it means nothing to everybody. Nobody said it was all about the fans (I don't think), but it's awfully naive to think that it wasn't at all about the fans. It's also naive to think that at least some portion of the fan base would be excited about it and felt that it was in some ways about them. You don't have to like it, but you probably should accept it.
THIS! The fact people need it explained to them speaks volumes. Again had Axl showed up and Slash didn't the whole conversation would be flip flopped so people here are simply refusing to acknowledge the event itself was something for fans to enjoy and that it was important to some fans. It's arrogant and liek I've said it's pretty narrow minded. Like I said a few posts back and like Buzz said here it doesn't matter that it's an industry jerkoff, it's no different than any other organization that hands out arbitrary awards. BUT the individuals being acknowledged and the performances that come with it are something the fans do enjoy and look forward to and YES it means soemthing to some of them. The RRHOF was slightly different in that it was a career acknowledgement and an opportunity for the guys in the band to say thank you and for the fans to say thanks in return. It's unbelievable that this is lost on some of you. "Oh but Deep Purple and KISS aren't in so it's fucking bullshit! Fuck the man and fuck the RRHOF!! Go Axl!" 
The big issue here is the complete lack of comprehension by some to understand why it was important to some people. That and their "too cool fuck the RRHOF" attitude is ridiculous.
The event itself isn't really for the fans but rather for the indvdals that are getting inducted. There is probably some other under current and agenda too at times by the people that run it.
BUT the fact a band is even being inducted at all is because of the fans. Yes there are glaring omissions from the Hall, but every band/person that has been inducted would never have even been considered if not for the fans supporting them. Yes there are more talented artists out there with little to no support that will never get into the HOF or the public recognition they deserve and I think therein lies the answer. That's how the Hall in at least one aspect is about the fans to some degree, these bands would never be in there if not for their fans support. Sure the fans don't write the music but they connected with it and helped get it and the artist out there.
So from that perspective I believe the artists should at least fucken have the decency to turn up to te event and play for those fans.
Why waste your time posting straight up common sense dude? Afterall the fans have fuck all to do with this remember 
Academically I agree with you that it's a questionable institution.
But in practise, well, it becomes about the fans the minute someone proposed, (weather or not it was any of their business), to assemble all 5 AFD guys in the one place - regardless if they play or not - as that's something that's not been done in a VERY long time. If'd guess since when? The 1980s? Something like that is important to fans.
Why does russ get excited when Robin cameos with the band now? Why do a lot of us old timers get excited for Izzy or Duff? The mere presence of these people together in a band with GNR's history is exciting.
Also, despite being a bit of a sham, the institution serves for as much as a life time achievement award in the absence of anything else doing the job. People come to the event to celebrate the achievements of the bands, and GNR fans have been excited about this for years as it was a chance to honour the old band and what they did (and also for the possibility of some kind of retro performance).
The hall itself may be a little corrupt, but it's not the performers who give a shit what happens on the night, it's the general public and fans of the band.
Thus...maybe Duff doesn't care that Izzy wasn't there....but I know I do. I wanted to see all 5 standing together and listen to the audience go insane with joy over it - even if they didn't play.
Exactly Monkey. To be brutally honest I'd have preferd all five of them to be there doing acceptances speeches with no performance than what we had. Clearly some can't or just refuse to understand why a fan would want that.
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
People have suddenly made the RRHOF way more important than what it is because it was the last opportunity to see old line up together, vesting all their hopes in a reunion and it didn't happen. You just have a specific event to place all that anger into. It's easier to make it all about you, the fan. The anger has little to do with the HOF as people are making it seem.
I think the anger is more about the realization a reunion will never happen and it was more than one of the old guys who feels that way. Just my opinion.
Oh, when you're bashing Izzy because he didn't do something you wanted him to, you're still bashing him.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
For me it didn't have to be a reunion...but it's childish that they can't even speak to one another.
Frankly I'd be cool with no reunion cos I like the modern songs just as much.
I'm one of the few around here who loves ALL of Chinese Democracy, and I think my fan rants in the Slash areas demonstrate I'm pretty into Apocalyptic Love too.
So it's not that this was my last hope or anything. It's more that it would have been nice for people near their 50s who were friends in their 20s and who achieved something really unusual and world conquering to put aside the bad blood for half an hour to acknowledge that people loved them and want to honour that legacy. That's all.
Well, that and because I like CD so much it frustrates me now that Axl seems focused on UYI era stuff all of a sudden (estranged / 14 years etc) when he's had songs like the general / blood in the water and all those other songs we've heard about in development for at least a decade.
So for Izzy to not be able to be mature at RRHOF and then to compound it by appearing here and enabling Axl to continue to avoid CD2 or any musical development with his awesome new band.....well I think it's annoying.
Sure Izzy doesn't owe me anything and Axl doesn't have to write me songs, but I don't have to like it when they're selfish and don't do things they could do to please millions of people either. There's no hatred from me. I just find it frustrating.
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
People have suddenly made the RRHOF way more important than what it is because it was the last opportunity to see old line up together, vesting all their hopes in a reunion and it didn't happen, we all knew it wasn't going to happen. You just have a specific event to place all that anger into. It's easier to make it all about you, the fan. The anger has little to do with the HOF as people are making it seem.
I think the anger is more about the realization a reunion will never happen and it was more than one of the old guys who feels that way. Just my opinion.
You've now turned this into a matter of some of us just being pissed off because a reunion isn't going to happen? Dude you've lost your mind you really have. It's been explained to you over and over why some people have an issue with what went down at the RRHOF and Izzy's subsequent performance with Axl and yet you refuse to grasp what's being said so you continue to make shit up. We're now angry because a reunion is never gonna happen? That's our issue? Wow gee misterID thanks for telling us how we feel. For me it was never about gettinga reunion but thanks for telling me it was. The nerve of us to try and explain it to you in a way that even a 6 year old could understand. Honestly dude you've become a complete joke.
And this anger angle you keep harping on... honestly dude the more you go on and on with that shit the more you sound like a dick.
Oh, when you're bashing Izzy because he didn't do something you wanted him to, you're still bashing him.
What is your point? Izzy's off limits and your feelings are hurt? The fact you think criticizing = bashing, shows you have no concept on reality. This is proof right here that in your mind we should be pissing sunshine and shitting rainbows.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
I am jealous of fans of the Eagles, Led Zepplin, and Pink Floyd. For they all got to see their band reunite for a show. Our band happens to be the biggest cluster fuck ever.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
Mr. ID simply will not admit he agrees with us, instead he goes all Ali on us and makes up even crazier theories.
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
Monkey, you know as well as I do that this was set up as a disappointment from the beginning -- The people complanining now were the ones setting it up from the very beginning that if Axl didn't show up he was a pussy and hated the fans... We all knew it wasn't going to happen. But I don't think anyone expected Izzy to do the same thing as Axl.
And I'm not talking about a reunion, but a one last effort to get them on stage together to to rekindle "the magic," and some were basing their hopes that it would spur the reunion on. Just like a reunion was "inevitable" when Duff joined GN'R on stage. Never happened. It's over, it's done, and people are pissed. This had nothing to do with the fans being disrespected, imo, but more about Axl and Izzy denying them seeing the old line up together again and basically putting the nail in the coffin.
I'm sorry, man, nobody is enabling Axl but Axl from moving forward. Axl and Izzy just seem to have a blast together on stage.
If anyone thinks that this ceremony was about them, the fan, then they're fooling themselves.
And it's not about anyone owing you or not owing you anything... It was a dumb award show given out buy a bunch of shadowy people and one guy deciding who's "worthy" of being in "his" Hall Of Fame.
Re: London, May 31 (14 Years and Dead Flowers w/ Izzy!)
I am jealous of fans of the Eagles, Led Zepplin, and Pink Floyd. For they all got to see their band reunite for a show. Our band happens to be the biggest cluster fuck ever.
And none of those reunions happened at the HOF 
...and thanks for proving my point.
