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- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
Thinking more about the Ozzy comparison.
Here's my armchair analysis:
1. The name issue. Some people will deal with you being solo not the old band. Some people won't. But calling it the old band exasperates the problem and unites the public against you. Ozzy succeeded again as Ozzy...not Sabbath.
2. Change of style doesn't wash with the public. You are famous cos people liked what you did. You need to prove to them you can do it without the other parts of the past. So you need to do what you are known for. Axl's intent seemed to be to make GNR an industrial outfit or something like that - which isn't what he is known for. Although Ozzy is prob a little different to Sabbath...it's still a sound acceptable to fans of the former.
3. Undeniable talent. Sure people like Sabbath. But it's hard to look at Randy and Zakk and say they suck. Axl did this a bit with bucket - but bucket's image distracted the easily distracted - plus - see point 2 - bucket writes in too many genre's and is too changeable. To a guitarist - he's obviously one of the best in the world - but to someone who isn't - he's just unpredictable and weird looking - might play some awesome solo - might dance - might make a weird sound - might do classical - might shred...he's questionable. The old guys Izzy with his stones vibe, Slash with his aerosmith - they did stuff that's easily identifiable. Bucket doesn't. Same with Ozzy. You KNOW how Zakk will sound...you KNOW what you will get.
But i've been thinking, a second life career of Axl could be possible in the right circumstances...but I do think those 3 factors distract!
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
I agree with Mikka and Monkey. You've got to make your mark with your own music.
Look at Ozzy. I personally PREFER Ozzy solo to Ozzy with Sabbath. Why? Because his solo career, regardless of Sabbath and he's still one of the great Metal Gods of all time.
Look at what he had, Crazy Train, Crowley, Suicide Solution, I Don't Know, Over The Mountain, Flying High Again, Tonight, Diary of a Madman, the entire Jake E. Lee-era from top-to-bottom (two full albums).... and guess what? That doesn't even count the Zakk Wylde-era.
That's just amazing. THAT is moving on.
BUT... Monkey is right too. The name coming with him was Axl's "Cursed Gift" to quote Jerry Cantell. The name protected him from failure, but it also trapped him from solo success.
If Axl had had the moxie to go 'Ozzy' on everyone, even at it's worst he was popular enough to have a Chris Cornell-career.
But in Axl's defense he was put in a very odd and weird situation by his own doing and the band's doing and the hangers on's doing. Basically Guns N' Roses existed one day, then Slash bailed... and it didn't anymore. Axl "never wanted it to die" and wanted to find a way to keep his band alive. In some ways Slash forced him into it, and Canter's comments almost entirely confirm it.
All these years....
Did Slash break up Guns N' Roses?
*95% of the world's brains collectively explode*
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
I don't think Slash bailed thinking he was breaking up the band like it did, it could have been a total power play. Again, just my opinion and how I've tried to piece this thing together, I think Slash threw a tantrum, took his ball and went home when Axl didn't want to record his music, thinking that with the bad press, fan reaction and showing Axl who's boss (or whatever) would lead to Axl caving in and doing it more Slash's way.
You look at the build up to it, Slash giving Axl finished songs and telling him to put lyrics and vocals on it (this also goes back to the power struggle between them when he first joined GN'R and Axl said Slash put in his demo tape from Road Crew and said to play on that) and when Axl refused, he started burying anything Axl liked, like FTP or the 2 other songs. It could have been a move that backfired on Slash, thinking he'd leave for a few months, or year, do the Snakepit thing and then they'd get back together after Axl learned his lesson.
I don't think Slash had any idea how personal Axl would take him bailing or that he'd actually slam the door on him and move on with other musicans.
That's just my opinion, of course.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
Yeah I agree it probably was a power-play by Slash.
I think we need to look at it with balance...and you see both guys are sort of in the wrong.
If Slash is showing up with finished songs and letting no one contribute musically then that's harsh, then he goes on a massive bluff power-play by launching Snakepit.
But then if Axl has become nocturnal, reclusive, no-showing meetings, seems obsessed with changing the band's sound, and took more than 2 years to record the last album, is acting like the original members contributed nothing to the success and has converted you from partner to employee....
What slash did was sort of childish and bad form...but you can also see that maybe he felt he needed to make the point that his riffs are pretty important to the whole to get some respect back...
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
Thought this further piece from Marc was interesting:
Marc another question since Beta and her family are so close to Axl has anyone tried to speak to them about getting professional help for Axl? Surely they must be aware of his nature and are concerned.
I have told Beta many times, but nothing ever gets done. She thinks it's all Slash's fault. I told her it's not about who's fault it is, it's about how to deal with it and move on
These people display classic enabler behaviour.
Don't think Marc will be invited around for dinner again any time soon. 
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
You look at the build up to it, Slash giving Axl finished songs and telling him to put lyrics and vocals on it (this also goes back to the power struggle between them when he first joined GN'R and Axl said Slash put in his demo tape from Road Crew and said to play on that)
Axl said on the chats that Slash presented the songs COMPLETED, lyrics and melodies and that Axl should recored 'em that way or leave 'em to Snakepit.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
^ which he should not have done. I just think we also need to consider what drove him to that point. He obviously thought that developing the songs with Axl properly was unworkable.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
Slash & the guys had all been to the studio for a couple of years at that point. Axl was showing up ay 4am or not at all while the rest of them worked together.
Duff mentioned that after two years of work, Axl said that he felt they had a chorus and that was it. If you are dealing with that kind of insane level of procrastination and rejection of your contributions you are bound to snap eventually.
Slash power played probably hoping Axl would be forced to move forward.
It can be viewed as a dick move but then again so is rejecting everything your band mates have written and submitted to you.
It is worth pointing out that Slash did what many others did after him; Matt, Duff, Robin, Bucket, Brain, Freese, Youth and all of the rest who wrote music with GNR; they chose to bail on Axl too.
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
Having worked with procrastinating frontmen, I can tell you from experience that the gig starts out great with all the legacy one is proud to build on, but then it sort of plateaus. You work your ass off because you want the job and have a strong urge to cut your teeth with the material, the material inspires you, you turn in something you feel is the vintage sound with your mark on it.
You feel good, the frontman doesn't.
After a while, you just get frustrated and the name becomes more of a baggage than a merit, the gig turns into a drag, because it's all about doing a show once in a blue moon, chipping away at stuff on your downtime and answering the odd question about whether the frontman is difficult to work with, and, most importantly, why doesn't he release new material.
You'd love to give out an answer, but you can't.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: Slash in CD sessions 2001? Illusions reunion in 96?
That's interesting Apex as I was in a band years ago, once we got a record deal our guitarist/song writing guy became a huge dick who rubbished everything everybody else came up with.
Problem was, he was so stoned and drunk during writing sessions that he just couldn't get it together to be constructive about what was bugging him, he just slated all of us and talked nonsense when pushed about what he was looking to hear.
Eventually we fell apart as a band because our managers were so frustrated with him that they gave us 5 days to write 5 songs, just to get the guy moving. By the end of the 5 days we got it done but fired him shortly afterwards as it was like pulling teeth.
The sad thing was, he was the true talent in the band, just a vain dick who decided we all had to listen to him alone. God know what he would have been like with fame. We were all so angry and drunk (to cope with the stress) we all did shit stuff to each other.
We are all friends now 10 years later but it took years for it all to not be an issue.
Multiply that by TEN BILLION for GNR and that's where the guys were.
