You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
My 4 day odyssey is now complete. I had some reservations along the way, but I was more than satisfied with what transpired Saturday night. Don't get me wrong, there were some obvious negatives. Unrelated to GNR, I haven't gotten a chance to read up on the reason for Rod Stewart's no show, but that was a bit of a bummer. I thought the singer for the Faces was pretty damn good though. Also, not a huge Green Day fan but I thought they did a great job opening the show and setting the tone. Also thought they fared well with inducting GNR. Couldn't help but crack up at Chris Rock's joke about Axl Rose either.
Anyway, as for GNR, since that's what really matters here. It was sad in a way that they lost out top billing to the Chili Peppers. No offense to them, because they were deserving and they did a great job as well. It just wasn't meant to go down that way. And honestly, I think GNR still could've closed the show even without Axl, of course I'm a little biased. There were a few cheers for Axl, when he was referenced or shown on the screen, but the boos heavily outweighed the cheers. If he thought the public wasn't on his side before in the US, he's in for some tough times in the future if they ever tour here again. I mean, I guess time heals all wounds (well at least most, ahem). But he was probably the most hated man in the building that night. the mayor of Cleveland and governor of Ohio may have given him a run for his money, but it was close.
I felt bad for him, and I know I shouldn't. It's all his own doing. And I understand why he didn't want to be there. I get it. I really have no problem with it or his letter. I just wish he would've congratulated the rest of the guys or something. That would've taken some of the sting away.
Anyhow, I thought the speeches were really good, genuine, and heartfelt. I was surprised Steven was so brief. I have to say, I have a whole new appreciation for Myles for stepping up on Saturday. I know he's not loved by all, but he allowed me to see Slash, Duff, Matt, Steven, and Gilby rocking out to 3 classic GNR songs that I so dearly love. That alone was worth the 9 1/2 hour trip to Cleveland for me. Getting to finally see Slash live, ripping up those solos was mesmerizing. The man is a larger than life figure on stage. I think he got the loudest ovations all night of anyone that was there. I'm all for Myles in Velvet Revolver, not that I wasn't before. Although, that's a discussion for a different day. But I honestly appreciate Myles coming through when things looked so bleak. And in the end, it probably worked out better that Axl didn't show up because then a performance may not have happened at all.
Overall, I had a great time. And for all the shit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame gets, I thought they put on an amazing show with all things being considered. The night had all the makings of being a complete and utter disaster, but it exceeded my expectations and made the trip well worth it.
Great fuckin' review, so awesome for the guys to save the day.
Slash for President
Myles for Vice President
Duff for Secretary of Treasury
Steven for Secretary of State
Matt for Secretary of Defense
Gilby for Secretary of Partying Down
in 2012
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Of course you don't KV, you've got an agenda to promote.
Like this is some sort of goddamn equal time town hall debate for President.
In regards to a few pages back, I just want to say that I DO NOT think Axl did anything illegal to acquire the name.
I think what he did was highly unethical, brilliant, and sneaky at the same time, but not illegal. He manuvered to get the name, got it, let the statute of limitations run out, quit the band, took it with him, and then requested them to become his employees. All legal eagle.
But Slash & Duff have full rights to look at Axl as the biggest tube steak of the last 30 years because of it.
The facts are out there for you to judge. I doubt you will investigate to find that middle ground between what each camp claims, but whatever makes you happy, dude.
Agenda, lol. Well, if bringing fact to an overly emotional debate is an agenda, then guilty as charged.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Yeah I'm not saying it's illegal either. I'm saying it's was "bad form" to your friends and co-founders from an ethical perspective, but probably what he had to do given his own situation. Also, in signing, Slash and Duff did what they had to do given their peoblems at the time. Like the decision to throw out steven it sort of all makes rational sense for everyone but in your heart it's just a little wrong somewhere.
Speaking figuratively,just as Slash has to pay that debt to steven every time he looks at his stroke riddled face now, Axl has to pay it to the hardcore fans when they see what's become of the greatest band in the world under his leadership.
But they all did what they had to do. I just don't get why Axl seems to think he's owed an apology but doesn't give the same one back - when it's obvious all sides are in the wrong partially.
But at the end of the day everyman in GNR is a champion because all of them are still alive when they all were expected to die well before this age.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Yeah I'm not saying it's illegal either. I'm saying it's was "bad form" to your friends and co-founders from an ethical perspective, but probably what he had to do given his own situation. Also, in signing, Slash and Duff did what they had to do given their peoblems at the time. Like the decision to throw out steven it sort of all makes rational sense for everyone but in your heart it's just a little wrong somewhere.
Re-reading your post, I have some thoughts.
The band was falling apart so quickly during that UYI tour that Axl decided to step up and take control because he felt no one else was willing to defend their interests? Izzy was out. Slash and Duff had terrible issues battling drugs and alcohol while Axl battled Niven and the label every step of the way. Axl negotiated himself an escape pod which allowed him to jump ship with the G&R name before someone could swindle the band out of money, forge a bad contract, or mass defect from the band.
I hate to break it to you, but Axl continues to be a very savy businessman. He has ego problems, difficulty relating to people, and tends to flake out when responsibility comes calling, but he knows how to protect his interests.
This is the reason I believe why he brokered the deal to take the name if he ever left the band.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Yeah I'm not saying it's illegal either. I'm saying it's was "bad form" to your friends and co-founders from an ethical perspective, but probably what he had to do given his own situation. Also, in signing, Slash and Duff did what they had to do given their peoblems at the time. Like the decision to throw out steven it sort of all makes rational sense for everyone but in your heart it's just a little wrong somewhere.
You are rationalizing a bad business decision. Axl swindled his friends in forging this contract while Duff and Slash did what they had to do to get by.
Seriously, this is a Duff and Slash apologist argument.
Did you ever stop to consider that the band was falling apart so quickly during that UYI tour that Axl decided to step up and take control because he felt no one else was willing to defend their interests? Izzy was out. Slash and Duff had terrible issues battling drugs and alcohol while Axl battled Niven and the label every step of the way. Axl negotiated himself an escape pod which allowed him to jump ship with the G&R name before someone could swindle the band out of money, forge a bad contract, or mass defect from the band.
I hate to break it to you, but Axl continues to be a very savy businessman. He has ego problems, difficulty relating to people, and tends to flake out when responsibility comes calling, but he knows how to protect his interests.
This is the reason I believe why he brokered the deal to take the name if he ever left the band.
Yeah...you can't call anybody an apologist for anything. You're saying Axl was justified in screwing over his band mates because they weren't capable of defending their own interests. That's what friends do. 
Then you go on to say that because they were so messed up on drugs that they couldn't defend their own interests, yet they were completely capable of signing over the name and knowing exactly what they were doing? Seriously?
Axl is savvy, but he's savvy at protecting his own interests. He could have helped Slash and Duff. He took advantage of the situation. While that may be business savvy, it's also why the business world is so shady.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
In my defense, I re-thought the 'apologist' argument and actually edited that out of my post after re-reading his 'chow's post. I give you that and take that back.
That is my honest answer why I believe Axl did what he did.
If you think Axl had any power to get Slash and Duff off drugs then you really underestimate how strong the powers that fed that addiction were in G&R. I also think many people misunderstand how caring Axl was with his old mates. Read Duff's book and you will see a portrait of Axl who cared about his mates and their well being. He spent a lot of time helping Adler after numerous close calls, spent time with Duff when he was hospitalized with his internal organ problems.
As shitty as many of you find the decision, Axl, in my opinion, was looking out for the G&R brand as much as his ability to control the direction of the band. Whether or not he has been successful is another debate, especially since old demons die hard.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
In my defense, I re-thought the 'apologist' argument and actually edited that out of my post after re-reading his 'chow's post. I give you that and take that back.
That is my honest answer why I believe Axl did what he did.
If you think Axl had any power to get Slash and Duff off drugs then you really underestimate how strong the powers that fed that addiction were in G&R. I also think many people misunderstand how caring Axl was with his old mates. Read Duff's book and you will see a portrait of Axl who cared about his mates and their well being. He spent a lot of time helping Adler after numerous close calls, spent time with Duff when he was hospitalized with his internal organ problems.
As shitty as many of you find the decision, Axl, in my opinion, was looking out for the G&R brand as much as his ability to control the direction of the band. Whether or not he has been successful is another debate, especially since old demons die hard.
There are other ways of helping them than just getting them off drugs. There were other ways he could have altered the arrangement without taking complete control of everything. I don't disagree that something needed to be done; I disagree with what Axl decided to do.
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
Axlin12 wrote:Of course you don't KV, you've got an agenda to promote.
Like this is some sort of goddamn equal time town hall debate for President.
In regards to a few pages back, I just want to say that I DO NOT think Axl did anything illegal to acquire the name.
I think what he did was highly unethical, brilliant, and sneaky at the same time, but not illegal. He manuvered to get the name, got it, let the statute of limitations run out, quit the band, took it with him, and then requested them to become his employees. All legal eagle.
But Slash & Duff have full rights to look at Axl as the biggest tube steak of the last 30 years because of it.
The facts are out there for you to judge. I doubt you will investigate to find that middle ground between what each camp claims, but whatever makes you happy, dude.
Agenda, lol. Well, if bringing fact to an overly emotional debate is an agenda, then guilty as charged.
I know the facts. Pretty much everything publicly, and some things not so publicly that I will not get into in a public forum, just because there's too many fanboys about.
I just Arbitrate the whole thing.
You're the one that represents Axl's side solely. Not me. The facts are out there. And I know all of them, and i've put them all in the middle.
They've all lied
Problem is, you're coming from an angle that Axl has never lied or misrepresented the facts, and that's simply not true... and you know it.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
There are other ways of helping them than just getting them off drugs. There were other ways he could have altered the arrangement without taking complete control of everything. I don't disagree that something needed to be done; I disagree with what Axl decided to do.
Neither one of us was there so we don't know how bad it was.
Axl decided it was bad enough to take an extreme measure, his insurance to keep the brand alive.
But you seem to want to give S&D slack even though their behavior gravely contributed to the power play. They really have no one to blame but themselves. For letting it get so bad. For signing that contract. For letting people into the circle who could destroy the band.
At the end of the day, I am thankful they signed that document because I don't this group had the tolerance to make another record as a unit.
- killingvector
- Rep: 21
Re: RRHoF Discussion (Izzy/Slash/Axl Press Statements)
I know the facts. Pretty much everything publicly, and some things not so publicly that I will not get into in a public forum, just because there's too many fanboys about.
I just Arbitrate the whole thing.
You're the one that represents Axl's side solely. Not me. The facts are out there. And I know all of them, and i've put them all in the middle.
They've all lied
Problem is, you're coming from an angle that Axl has never lied or misrepresented the facts, and that's simply not true... and you know it.
No one knows all the facts. But even worse, some turn a blind eye to those that are out there.
I agree that both sides have lied and manipulated the other, but, from my seat, one side has done it consistently more often for selfish gain than the other. It is not a zero sum game here.
Finally, I never proclaimed that Axl has not lied. One example: He clearly announced a release period for Chinese on at least two occasions and also clearly never intended to deliver.
