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Re: Could the tide be turning
They might not fund a new album, but they'd sure as hell put one out. It's not the 2010 version of Jethro Tull. A gn'r album would make money on the hardcores alone.
The music was the last deciding factor in why CD tanked. No media love and zero promotion is 90% of the story.
I guess the number of streams meant nothing then. Funny people thought they meant alot when the numbers first came out...now that they support the otherside, suddenly they are meaningless. Okay...
You guys can keep dreaaming if you think the music was not a factor. People wanted to hear GnR and they heard whatever it was on CD and tuned out. The declining numbers as the album continued for the free streams indicated this quite clearly too. The media supported the album overall, so what else you got?
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Could the tide be turning
Record company people know that, and there isn't going to be a best buy to bail them out this time.
Unless Axl has a UYI type album up his sleeve, it's over album wise. The record company isn't going to put out CD II and wouldn't have put out CD I without the best buy deal.
What you have said is the reason why the record company wouldn't gamble massively significant funds into production of a follow up. I agree they wouldn't spend anything like that they spent from 1998 onwards again - no way they will fork out millions and millions of bucks because recoupment would be hard.
And you might be right if we were talking about a fresh album - like album 3 might be....but what you don't seem to be paying attention to is that the costs of album 2 would be significantly less. The recordings are almost complete - from money that has already been recouped by the best buy deal. So right now the record company is in the black and somewhere sitting around is 3/4 of a product.
Given both DJ and Bumble seem to own protools HD set ups and studios - it's likely that the kind of cosmetic work being done to the songs could be done with no paid studio time or some insignificant budget.
This then puts the costs involved in the release to essentially mixing, mastering and then a pressing run and marketing. Marketing is the grey area - obviously if you go too nuts on that then it becomes hard to make it back - but if you kept it to the standard level that a rock release has these days - say something like Alice in Chains - it would be fine. So given the recording cost is paid, asside from mixing, then assuming a sensible marketing cost, even with reduced interest and the 'fake' band or whatever most people would think, sales from the hardcores and the incidental interest in the general brandvalue alone could easily recoup.
Sure i cant seem them forking up like $15m or anything but from the Record Company perspective because most of it's done already they could keep the budget down to levels that are similar to what they do with a brand new act - except this one has an established following - not to mention that that any activity in the band helps boost catalogue sales. Sales wise...it's actually one of the safer bets they could take.
Re: Could the tide be turning
The style of music was definately a reason why a lot of old time casual fans were turned off. There are a lot more people in the world than that though.
I'm a casual fan of AC/DC. I didn't even think to download their last album even though it was a "hit" cause I know they're a spent force. I'd assume a pretty big chunk of those buyers did so because they were told so. One massive media campaign and suddenly AC/DC were the shit again, even though they didn't release anything even resembling a hit single.
On top of that you have the story of Azoff ordering the album to be tanked as a part of a greedy scheme to force a reunion.
CD has plenty of hits. Maybe not to GN'R fans, but certainly to casual music fans. But for that to happen you need to get those bribes out to reviewers and get some serious exposure on television. Gn'R had none of that.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Could the tide be turning
Putting it simpler....
If Axl phoned up the label and said "Hi, I'm starting a brand new project and I need you to pay for it" then they'd be nervous - takes too long and it's a gamble to get paid back.
But that's not the phonecall.
Its "Hi, I have these finished songs that we've already paid for, want to box them up pretty and release them?".
Now where's the downside of that again?
Re: Could the tide be turning
Putting it simpler....
If Axl phoned up the label and said "Hi, I'm starting a brand new project and I need you to pay for it" then they'd be nervous - takes too long and it's a gamble to get paid back.
But that's not the phonecall.
Its "Hi, I have these finished songs that we've already paid for, want to box them up pretty and release them?".
Now where's the downside of that again?
Because that's not how it's going to happen. It's going to be "I have these songs, but I need to get my 2 new quitarists to play some stuff that 2 of the old guitarists played and just tweak a couple other things here and there..."
Re: Could the tide be turning
The style of music was definately a reason why a lot of old time casual fans were turned off. There are a lot more people in the world than that though.
I'm a casual fan of AC/DC. I didn't even think to download their last album even though it was a "hit" cause I know they're a spent force. I'd assume a pretty big chunk of those buyers did so because they were told so. One massive media campaign and suddenly AC/DC were the shit again, even though they didn't release anything even resembling a hit single.
On top of that you have the story of Azoff ordering the album to be tanked as a part of a greedy scheme to force a reunion.
CD has plenty of hits. Maybe not to GN'R fans, but certainly to casual music fans. But for that to happen you need to get those bribes out to reviewers and get some serious exposure on television. Gn'R had none of that.
Plenty of hits? OMG...I thought we'd all gotten past that load of crap a year ago.
Re: Could the tide be turning
monkeychow wrote:Putting it simpler....
If Axl phoned up the label and said "Hi, I'm starting a brand new project and I need you to pay for it" then they'd be nervous - takes too long and it's a gamble to get paid back.
But that's not the phonecall.
Its "Hi, I have these finished songs that we've already paid for, want to box them up pretty and release them?".
Now where's the downside of that again?
Because that's not how it's going to happen. It's going to be "I have these songs, but I need to get my 2 new quitarists to play some stuff that 2 of the old guitarists played and just tweak a couple other things here and there..."
Buzz, you're avoiding the question.
Why would Geffen/Interscope turn down a new album from a band, which has been one of the most successful (if not THE most successful) brand name in their roster in the past quarter of a century?
The name Guns N' Roses ships units with the recognition value alone. With a decent push, the album could easily match/surpass the US/worldwide sales of CD, despite the fact that CD itself had already turned half-way mythical. The interest is still there, and capita is still to be made.
We can debate until the end of days on how the GNR brand got to be considered so valuable, but the bottom line is, the value is there, giving the brand owner (Axl) an ace in the hole, should he decide to re-enter the music biz.
Re: Could the tide be turning
We may remember the CD release as a mess but history won't. I mean jesus! Time magazine reviewed the LEAKS of this album!
Time Magazine.... The fucking Leaks!!!...... Not even the album.... the illegal leaks....
More insanely they fucking loved them:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0 … 47,00.html
Rolling stone gave the full album an excellent review. In 2008 just as 808's n heartbreak was coming out, they gave CD a great review.... Awesome.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/album … y-20081127
BBC dug that shit :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7730075.stm
allmusic:
http://www.allmusic.com/album/chinese-d … 256/review
Quote:
"Or as Axl put it in an apology for canceled concerts in 2006, "In the end, it's just an album." And it's a good album, no less and no more."
Chuck Klosterman (Fucking Hardass):
http://www.avclub.com/articles/chuck-kl … racy,2539/
Quote: " This record may tank commercially. Some people will slaughter Chinese
Democracy,
and for all the reasons you expect. But he did a good thing here.
Grade: A-"
LA Times:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_b … ew-gu.html
Quote:"Whether history declares it a tragedy or a farce, this is one album that's more than a pop exercise. And for that, Axl Rose can finally take a bow."
Yes the release and lack of promo was a joke. We lost out there.
Posterity will not note our opinions on this album though. Not one of us will be quoted in an article 10 years down the line. The entire GNR forum community will be mentioned in some throwaway sentences casting us as trolls, which for the most part, many of us are.
The reviews are what will remain. Chinese Democracy will b remembered as a good album.
GNR are in a position now to do whatever the fuck they like.
Re: Could the tide be turning
buzzsaw wrote:monkeychow wrote:Putting it simpler....
If Axl phoned up the label and said "Hi, I'm starting a brand new project and I need you to pay for it" then they'd be nervous - takes too long and it's a gamble to get paid back.
But that's not the phonecall.
Its "Hi, I have these finished songs that we've already paid for, want to box them up pretty and release them?".
Now where's the downside of that again?
Because that's not how it's going to happen. It's going to be "I have these songs, but I need to get my 2 new quitarists to play some stuff that 2 of the old guitarists played and just tweak a couple other things here and there..."
Buzz, you're avoiding the question.
Why would Geffen/Interscope turn down a new album from a band, which has been one of the most successful (if not THE most successful) brand name in their roster in the past quarter of a century?
The name Guns N' Roses ships units with the recognition value alone. With a decent push, the album could easily match/surpass the US/worldwide sales of CD, despite the fact that CD itself had already turned half-way mythical. The interest is still there, and capita is still to be made.
We can debate until the end of days on how the GNR brand got to be considered so valuable, but the bottom line is, the value is there, giving the brand owner (Axl) an ace in the hole, should he decide to re-enter the music biz.
What? Did you not read what I wrote in the other post? I addressed exactly why the record company would turn down a new album.
Ask best buy how many they sold at $1.99. Record company execs know what I know. I'd like to think they know more than I do, but that's debateable.
Read the reviews above of the leaks. Read the album reviews. Two weeks in the album is done from a sales perspective. This isn't rocket science and that's not only a marketing issue.
Re: Could the tide be turning
while bands like acdc decided to let big ass wal mart carry them to success,
cd was sold as an exclusive to a company bordering on bankrupcy.
best buy was hoping the big ass gnr brand name would carry them.
we all know it sold less then expected.
as far as promo....i know i know - cd was "the most anticipated album of all time"
it was also the longest anticipated album of all time.......
when it takes almost a decade to release an album since its acknowledgement and then it is released with last minute/half assed promo and production, exclusively to slow ass store........you get the point
gnr was also a freakshow from '01 to '08, with a disastrous comeback tour
bottom line is it still managed to sell 2-4 million world wide (what are the exact numbers now?) with all of those things stacked against its success
99.9 percent of label supported artistst dont even go gold
if cd 2 sells half of what cd sold then the label is still interested.
an underachieving gnr still makes everyone money.
and i wouldnt be stunned if it surpassed cd.
gnr is slowly rebuilding its credibility with each successful tour since the release and has a strong following.
they can release music whenever they have music to release.
