You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: The 3rd Chinese (How Are You Grenade) Has Surfaced! (FAKE?)
my beef however is the lies & bs we've been fed by axl & tommy regarding why CD took so long to come out.
you'll remember they did an interview with Billboard upon CD's release & p much blamed the label & roy thomas baker for why the album took so long to be released.
Stinson's post CD release interviews were the highlight of the album's "promotion". His statements regarding Baker and Uni added some key missing pieces to the puzzle which brought some much needed sense to the bullshit wait for an album that had obviously been finished many years earlier.
Baker's approach to the project was absurd and probably allowed by all parties involved because of the supposed previous album rejection and Ezrin's infamous "three songs" statement which probably had them all shaking in their boots. The Ezrin incident has always been downplayed on the forums(younger fans may not even know about it or simply forgot) but it may have caused a chain reaction that caused the delay and band inactivity to spiral out of control.
Stinson comment on Baker:
BPM: What happened when producer Roy Thomas Baker was brought in?
Tommy: He wanted to re-record everything, because he felt he could get better tones. In my opinion, he wasted many years and many millions of dollars trying to get us better sounds that we could have addressed in the mixing stage. I'm not a proponent of his style of producing. I think Iovine put Roy Thomas Baker in the producer seat because he didn't think the raw sounds were good enough.
Then Roy came in and would try every Marshall guitar amp in a five-state area to find just the right guitar tone. And he wanted to do that for every single part on the album.
Ezrin getting a sneak peak into Axl's vault since Axl was interested in him getting involved:
In the fall, a new A&R man was hired to help bring the project into completion. He was someone who specialised in providing the ‘final push’ for albums nearing completion: legendary Alice Cooper/Lou Reed/Pink Floyd producer Bob Ezrin. As Alice Cooper told it later,”To this day, really good songwriters that are ready to finish an album call me up and go, ‘Do you have Bob Ezrin’s number?’…Bob’s not going to be a yes man. He’s going to go in there and tell you how many (decent) songs you actually have… He did it with Guns N’Roses.
“I know Axl called him up and said, ‘I want you to listen to Chinese Democracy and tell me what I’ve got [that’s good].’ Bob listened to it and said, ‘Three songs.’ This is after seven years [of songwriting].”
In mid-September, retailers were notified that Chinese Democracy was projected to be released in November, which does seem to support the notion that the record was essentially done, and – prior to his negative assessment – Ezrin was merely called in for some final pre-release tweaks.
It was probably at this point when Baker moved the band to Village Recording Studios in Western LA. The studio team would also be revamped with Pro Tools engineer Eric Caudieux (and, presumably, new main engineer Caram Costanzo).
Axl went back to the demo tape Duff and Izzy prepared in 1995. Izzy told Popular magazine in 2001, “In ’95, Duff and me recorded songs for the band. We made a tape that went nowhere. Then, a couple of months ago I have a message on my answering machine: ‘Yo! It’s Axl, I need a copy of the songs that you did.’ There was one called Down By The Ocean or Down By The Sea, they may have used it, I [don’t know].”
This I Love is another old track that might’ve been drawn back into the mix in 2000. Howard Karp worked on the song at that time as an assistant engineer to Caram Costanzo and producer Roy Thomas Baker. Karp: “It was very boring, sorry to say, just Axl and his piano (no singing) and a bunch of idiots running around catering to him and stroking him. I don’t know if they’ll ever release anything… shame.”
In hindsight it's a miracle that the band/album didn't implode at the time. It went from earth shattering big guns to Axl calling Izzy to ask for a demo from the mid 90s in three shakes of a lamb's tail.
I don't think anything Tommy said after the album's release is bullshit. It put the false start in 2001 and the 2002 fiasco into perspective.
Re: The 3rd Chinese (How Are You Grenade) Has Surfaced! (FAKE?)
"I don't think anything Tommy said after the album's release is bullshit."
- ok, fair enough. i should have been more specific in what i said. it's just from my recollection he seemed to point the finger of blame @ RTB & the label while ignoring the failings of his bandleader (& his & his bandmates role in not standing up to axl's whims). but i see he was asked specifically about RTB.
but yes that Ezrin thing is absolutely shocking & dispiriting.
i mean wtf. wtf is axl rose phoning ezrin for anyway? i bet he wasn't called in when they made AFD. axl's confidence is seemingly so fucking fragile. this is the guy who wrote SCOM & Estranged ffs! why does he think he needs the input of outsiders? the punk rock ethos of GnR has never been apparent in their recording techniques which is a damn shame.
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: The 3rd Chinese (How Are You Grenade) Has Surfaced! (FAKE?)
but yes that Ezrin thing is absolutely shocking & dispiriting.
when you hear the word 'yes' for twenty years and then hear 'no' for the first time, it probably fucks with your huge head.
Axl knows he's blown it with a 'new' GNR. He has no passion to win with this band. I think he must be tired out with the whole thing. Ten years of turning himself inside out to make what is a 'good' album at best. All we have now is a crabby but enigmatic boss and a bunch of skilled workers.
I will be a fan of his to my dying day but I will never get my head around his motives.
Re: The 3rd Chinese (How Are You Grenade) Has Surfaced! (FAKE?)
Axl will always be this...
and I will always love him for THAT.
It doesn't mean that he can't repent his sins, but he is kind of like the "kid with all the promise who had their moment, and suddenly 20 years later they're mommy & daddy's little crackhead"
- Intercourse
- Rep: 212
Re: The 3rd Chinese (How Are You Grenade) Has Surfaced! (FAKE?)
found this on line..could apply to someone we talk about alot.
Another way that the narcissist’s ego gets special attention is through the role of being a victim. Welcome to the victimized extreme narcissist. Most persons recognize ego as arrogance. At the same time they fail to see the subtle deception of ego when it takes the role of a being a victim. As kind and compassion-driven human beings, we easily are fooled by this form of extreme ego…..
The deception of the ego is that the narcissist can hide behind misfortune and victimization in order to shame you into feeling and believing that they suffer more than you do. They will say that you don’t care enough for them. They will make you feel that you have not done enough to help them. The ego wants attention, control, gain, and power over others by positioning itself as a “poor and helpless” victim. It does this all the while it soaks up the attention and control over others. In the eyes of an extreme narcissist, their situation is always right and totally justified. Instead of taking responsibility for self and consequences, the extreme narcissist tries to make others feel responsible for their plight. Because extreme narcissists are incredibly adept at the game of manipulation, they will always find a way to turn the tables on you. They will try to make you responsible and feel guilty for not helping them or taking their side and cause.
Extreme narcissists often shift gears from visible grandiosity to acting that they are better than others because they suffer more than others. You can see an extreme narcissist who hogs the limelight and credit from achievements and self-praise also getting similar recognition from milking an injury or a seeming misfortune that has occurred to them. Victimized extreme narcissists are on the constant prowl looking for any gullible soul that will believe their version of calamity whether it is real, exaggerated, or fictitious. What they claim that makes their calamity different is that it is worse for them. Beware of this kind of extreme narcissism. It is just as selfish and manipulating as that of a pompous egotist. The moment they see that you don’t “fully” cooperate and act with extreme concern for them, serving and pampering them, they will eliminate you from their list of “loving” folks. They may even badmouth you and gossip or slander you as being selfish and uncaring. Imagine that! I have seen these types over and over again in work I have done in the field of pain medicine management. It is usually the individuals who are humble, full of gratitude, and joyful who are the ones most capable of coping with their injuries and pain. Those who are selfish, moaning, and full of self-pity take much longer to heal or sometimes never heal but go further downhill in their health. My recommendation is to avoid treating this person’s misfortune as the ultimate suffering of all humans. Be polite. Recognize their pain and no more. Don’t be pulled into their web of emotional manipulation. Stay away from extreme narcissists.
