You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
You can call me Dr. Gas.....I agree with D. No perfectionist would have ever allowed the record to be released the way it was.
For the record, i never said Axl ever said he was a perfectionist. I just hear that thrown around a lot on GNR forums to try and rationalize certain behaviors. I don't think anything he does classifies as being a perfectionist.
the NR orchestra isn't necessarily done out of perfectionism, just more obsessive with getting it absolutely right. maybe similar in some ways but Axl had no problems getting albums out back in the day. AFD came out, the Illusions were delayed cause of 'Procrastination" and butting heads moreso than perfectionism imo.
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
Once he's 'stuck' everything else seems to go out the window, hence the big delays as he rinses these things through.
When Axl's performing live, he's either stuck to the flow of the show, or wound up by a soundmen/things thrown on stage/hecklers, etc.
Then again, just that makes him a great frontman, when he's stuck doing it.
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
madagas wrote:You can call me Dr. Gas.....I agree with D. No perfectionist would have ever allowed the record to be released the way it was.
For the record, i never said Axl ever said he was a perfectionist. I just hear that thrown around a lot on GNR forums to try and rationalize certain behaviors. I don't think anything he does classifies as being a perfectionist.
the NR orchestra isn't necessarily done out of perfectionism, just more obsessive with getting it absolutely right. maybe similar in some ways but Axl had no problems getting albums out back in the day. AFD came out, the Illusions were delayed cause of 'Procrastination" and butting heads moreso than perfectionism imo.
yep
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
Actually, Axl is PRECISELY the definition of a perfectionist.
Alot of people don't know this, but perfectionism is a personality disorder, that is a sub-category of... you guessed it Maddy - 'Obsessive Compulsive'.
Alot of people assume that people who are diagnosed as a 'perfectionist', that assume the word 'perfectionist' and the diagnosis go hand-and-hand with each other.
Not so.
There is the 'good' kind of perfectionism, where people are tidy cleaners, get work done ON TIME, keep track of every single detail, and execute perfectly, and rarely is it a disorder that interferes or derails their daily life.
THEN... there's the 'bad' kind of perfectionism. The bad kind is a form of Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY Disorder (not to be confused with OCD), and people under these guide lines are...
Procrastinators
Have an unobtainable standard, which immediately set themselves up for failure
An "all or nothing" attitude
Set goals based on others around them
Doubt their ability to accomplish tasks
Agonize over mistakes
And there are many more. Sound like anyone familiar? But the "all or nothing" attitude is very important, because it structures the entire psyche of the perfectionist. Your attitude is structured of "if I can't do this perfectly, then I shouldn't bother to do it at all". Kind of like release an album. Problem is you spend so much time procrastinating, because you're trying to strive for perfection, that by the time you get to the very end, what you are doing has become a bastardized version of your original goal, and the perfection goal is lost. THEN, you consider yourself a failure, because you didn't obtain the perfection, which almost ALL perfectionists, true perfectionists, the 'maladaptive'/'negative' kind deal with.
Perfectionists are notorious also for tardiness to work, events, or projects, as well as turning in reports late, and requesting extended deadlines. Sound like anyone familiar?
Everyone is open to their own opinion, because Psychology is a science and theory. But I believe Axl is a perfectionist.
Why? Because I have some background educationally in Psychology, and I was diagnosed as a 'perfectionist' at one time.
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
As already stated, perfectionists don't consider 10 year old demo vocals to be final. A perfectionist would have rerecorded those several times during the drawn out saga and likely done so again in the months leading up to the release.
Several of the songs on CD never should have been released with those vocal takes.
madagas, pretty sure Axl brought up his supposed perfectionism in one of those early 90s interviews but you're certainly right that forum junkies fanned those flames. If he were asked today about this supposed perfectionism, he'd probably laugh and say he isn't one simply due to the facts and how the album was handled.
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
Is there a chance Axl's re-recorded over and over CD tracks are sitting in his house and he won't let them go?
If true, why not use them on the album? They couldn't possibly be any worse, could they? It would make no sense to sit on superior vocal takes on old songs being released.
Neemo used to say instead of using the cut and paste hell with old vocal takes the album turned into, the 2008 version of the band should have went into the studio and recorded the album in a few weeks. As a nutswinger of the 2001 lineup I always disagreed but now that there's distance between CD's release and its legacy is solidified, I'm starting to agree that the approach should have been used.
I would have hated Bucket(and possibly Brain) not being on the album, but banging the album out in 4-8 weeks Soundgarden style may have improved the overall album.
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
Actually, Axl is PRECISELY the definition of a perfectionist.
Alot of people don't know this, but perfectionism is a personality disorder, that is a sub-category of... you guessed it Maddy - 'Obsessive Compulsive'.
Alot of people assume that people who are diagnosed as a 'perfectionist', that assume the word 'perfectionist' and the diagnosis go hand-and-hand with each other.
Not so.
There is the 'good' kind of perfectionism, where people are tidy cleaners, get work done ON TIME, keep track of every single detail, and execute perfectly, and rarely is it a disorder that interferes or derails their daily life.
THEN... there's the 'bad' kind of perfectionism. The bad kind is a form of Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY Disorder (not to be confused with OCD), and people under these guide lines are...
Procrastinators
Have an unobtainable standard, which immediately set themselves up for failure
An "all or nothing" attitude
Set goals based on others around them
Doubt their ability to accomplish tasks
Agonize over mistakesAnd there are many more. Sound like anyone familiar? But the "all or nothing" attitude is very important, because it structures the entire psyche of the perfectionist. Your attitude is structured of "if I can't do this perfectly, then I shouldn't bother to do it at all". Kind of like release an album. Problem is you spend so much time procrastinating, because you're trying to strive for perfection, that by the time you get to the very end, what you are doing has become a bastardized version of your original goal, and the perfection goal is lost. THEN, you consider yourself a failure, because you didn't obtain the perfection, which almost ALL perfectionists, true perfectionists, the 'maladaptive'/'negative' kind deal with.
Perfectionists are notorious also for tardiness to work, events, or projects, as well as turning in reports late, and requesting extended deadlines. Sound like anyone familiar?
Everyone is open to their own opinion, because Psychology is a science and theory. But I believe Axl is a perfectionist.
Why? Because I have some background educationally in Psychology, and I was diagnosed as a 'perfectionist' at one time.
Daniels & Price (2000) refer to perfectionists as "ones". Perfectionists are focused on personal integrity and can be wise, discerning and inspiring in their quest for the truth. They also tend to dissociate themselves from their flaws or what they believe are flaws (such as negative emotions) and can become hypocritical and hypercritical of others, seeking the illusion of virtue to hide their own vices. The greatest fear of perfectionists is to be flawed and their ultimate goal is perfection. 
Re: Not sure I agree with Axl being a "perfectionist"
Axlin08 wrote:Actually, Axl is PRECISELY the definition of a perfectionist.
Alot of people don't know this, but perfectionism is a personality disorder, that is a sub-category of... you guessed it Maddy - 'Obsessive Compulsive'.
Alot of people assume that people who are diagnosed as a 'perfectionist', that assume the word 'perfectionist' and the diagnosis go hand-and-hand with each other.
Not so.
There is the 'good' kind of perfectionism, where people are tidy cleaners, get work done ON TIME, keep track of every single detail, and execute perfectly, and rarely is it a disorder that interferes or derails their daily life.
THEN... there's the 'bad' kind of perfectionism. The bad kind is a form of Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY Disorder (not to be confused with OCD), and people under these guide lines are...
Procrastinators
Have an unobtainable standard, which immediately set themselves up for failure
An "all or nothing" attitude
Set goals based on others around them
Doubt their ability to accomplish tasks
Agonize over mistakesAnd there are many more. Sound like anyone familiar? But the "all or nothing" attitude is very important, because it structures the entire psyche of the perfectionist. Your attitude is structured of "if I can't do this perfectly, then I shouldn't bother to do it at all". Kind of like release an album. Problem is you spend so much time procrastinating, because you're trying to strive for perfection, that by the time you get to the very end, what you are doing has become a bastardized version of your original goal, and the perfection goal is lost. THEN, you consider yourself a failure, because you didn't obtain the perfection, which almost ALL perfectionists, true perfectionists, the 'maladaptive'/'negative' kind deal with.
Perfectionists are notorious also for tardiness to work, events, or projects, as well as turning in reports late, and requesting extended deadlines. Sound like anyone familiar?
Everyone is open to their own opinion, because Psychology is a science and theory. But I believe Axl is a perfectionist.
Why? Because I have some background educationally in Psychology, and I was diagnosed as a 'perfectionist' at one time.
Daniels & Price (2000) refer to perfectionists as "ones". Perfectionists are focused on personal integrity and can be wise, discerning and inspiring in their quest for the truth. They also tend to dissociate themselves from their flaws or what they believe are flaws (such as negative emotions) and can become hypocritical and hypercritical of others, seeking the illusion of virtue to hide their own vices. The greatest fear of perfectionists is to be flawed and their ultimate goal is perfection.
Some of that touches on both the positive and negative aspects.
But still, that's what they call POSITIVE/ADAPTIVE perfectionists.
Focus on that word - adaptive.
Negative perfectionists are maladaptive.
Their perfectionism is counter-productive to their own life. They never can achieve perfectionism because they continue to alter what perfection is (because they rely on the environment around them and those who succeed as what is perfection), and ultimately the goal becomes impossible. Thus, because of that, they become hypercritical of themselves, never allowing themselves congratulation, because they'll find some-thing wrong with what they did, even if it was perfectly executed.
Kind of like Axl spending tons of interviews talking about everything that's went wrong in 20 years, and never talking about what has gone right.
Then turning around and using his illusion of virtue (as you stated) to claim "that's what the media wants", when in reality - it's all Axl thinks about.
Just take this with you...
There are TWO TYPES of perfectionism. Positive/Adaptive, and Negative/Maladaptive, and the thing they have in common is the way the brain processes the information. But the end result and how critical the person is of themself is entirely different. Adaptive perfectionism, can see perfectionists achieve great goals and have tons of ambition. Maladaptive perfectionism can be crippling to one's life. Every aspect of the disorder is counter productive, and they can spend years trying to achieve what normal people can do and achieve in a year.
