Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

misterID

That comment is coming from Mikka, though...

I don't think there's a bad song on the album, personally. There are some I feel more than others. Some of the songs that got praised in the media are my least favorite, funny enough. I'm still shocked Prostitute, outside a couple reviewers, wasn't talked about more. imo, it's right there next to GNR's best songs.

Even though I think there were too many people on a given track, it's still pretty great.

Mikkamakka

war wrote:

really? ^^^^^^^^
you don't see any genius in twat, madagascar, this i love, sorry, etc...
hidden beneath the layers and overproduction?
what if the same songs were recorded with slash and co.?

Alright, no genius except TWAT. Although they could have worked more on the music, since the verses lack the ideas. Robin's solo is good (writing wise) and awful (playing wise - sorry, Russ), BH is amazing, Axl is amazing both lyrically and vocally. The drums suck though and the less Pitman the better.

This I Love could have been a classic, if it's only Axl and the piano. The overproduction and the awful solo (sorry Russ) takes away a lot. Less would have been more, in this case they had great ideas to begin with, but the result is probably worse, than Axl's first midnight drunk home demo that nobody heard.

Madagascar - interesting mood, good lyrics and nothing more. It could have been a good song (in its full potential), but the result is below mediocre. The quotation part is forced and out of place; I hate the solo, I can't recall a bit of it; Axl's singing is probably the worst he has ever recorded. I understand the 'old and tired' style, but it's plain bad. Nothing's really happening in the song. A typical post-Slash GN'R track: the song is an overproduced nothing. Sounds like a demo with a zillion, unneccessary layers, added by a madman.

Sorry - boring, uninspired song with nothing happening. A demo that would have needed more work in every possible aspect. The lyrics were written by the 5-year old Axl, probably. Baz is worse than 10 extra Pitman layers, and it's coming from an (old) Baz fan.

These songs with Slash:

TWAT - Slash could have come up with even better guitar solos than Robin, not to mention the quality of playing. He could have created something worthy for the verses - although these parts probably need Izzy more. The song is great enough in this version though. The only song on CD that should make Axl proud and the only tune that 'worth the wait'.

This I Love - we'd have gotten a solo in the league of NR or Estranged, but I repeat, the song could have been a classic with only Axl and the piano.

Madagascar - a memorable solo. Probably a bit more rocking riff part somewhere. And no stupid Axl extras. A good song, but still not something great.

Sorry - a real blues song with a real, and not imitated blues solo. The potential isn't really there, so even with Slash, the song couldn't have been more than mediocre.

monkeychow

Lot of interesting stuff in this thread.

axilin08 wrote:

CD's biggest problem is the whole thing lacks confidence. Why is that? Well, maybe because Axl pieced together his vocals and the guitar parts in 2 second clips

I wouldn't agree vocally as to me it sounds like the older albums have just as much editing and layers vocally when you really listen for it. Vocally to me it doesn't come across that it was really fashioned all that differently.

But it's definitely the case with the guitar parts. Which is a love it or hate it thing I think. I remember bumble once saying something about how CD is the kind of album journey that will never happen again in history - like decades to make - loads of musicians on the album - it's quite unique.

So yeah I dunno if I'd say it's a lack of confidence, but it does give it a sort of split-personality flavour. One thing I think is interesting is that most of Axl's guitarists have a pretty unique sound. You know like when slash plays you know it's him from his touch. Bucket is the same, his little stamps, and bumble has a specific way of playing that I can hear too. Even robin - some him or hate him - you know the moments when it's him and not someone else.

So i guess this sort of arsenel of 'voices' to some people comes across as lacking a clarity of focus, while to others it sort of sums up the way Axl's music often talks about a lot of things at once.

People that complain about slash being gone, or that it
s over produced etc, I often wonder if this is what they are subconciously noticing.

If they just don't like the multiple guitarist style. I wonder how people who don't like CD would like it if the band was like a traditional 5 piece just with 1 person on lead.

monkeychow

misterID wrote:

BTW, I'm not bashing anyone who feels differently than I do. If you love Slash's stuff and hate CD, that's just a matter of taste. Not saying anyones right or wrong.

I'm in the middle that I like both

To me each of their "solo" careers just shows the part they bring to the old band.

Jungle or Civil War were always going to be a kickass riff - but wouldn't be half as magical without Axl's lyrics and melody.

The snakepit stuff and slash solo stuff is like the same kind of riffs with the influence of other people on the track.

Meanwhile Estranged and November Rain would always be amazing balads and lyrics, but with added magic of Slash's guitar.

The CD songs are the exact same kind of ballads and stuff just influenced by different people.

I really like both of them, solo and together, i think musically they have both slightly evolved their styles naturally with age, but on a more fundemental level they both still do what they do - but the difference is in the choice of people they do it with - and the styles of those people.

faldor

misterID wrote:

I was watching a lot of old GNR live stuff recently, it made me listen to Slash's Snake Pit to even his last record. IMO, nearly everything was pretty much terrible.
It's funny you'd (Axlin) say CD shows how insecure Axl is, I'd have to say the opposite. He went so far away from the original GNR sound, to songs that don't even have a category, that I think he was throwing it in people's face that he wasn't afraid to turn people off. I think his problem is that no one was there to say, "Whoa." CD shows he wasn't trying to fake an orginal style album to get people not to criticize him. He wasn't going the safe route. I think he went into this knowing people would be criticizing him. His problem was prefectionism, thinking more is better.
Slash's solo album reeks of insecurity. From getting all the old rock stars to sing sub par, generic lyrics over old school riffs to adult contemporary pop rock guys (I'm shocked that Chad guy from Nickleback wasn't there) to a POP song that was, again, imo, a desperate attempt to get a top ten hit. When Slash said he was scared to approach Thom Yorke that really struck me that my criticisms were pretty much right on in what "my" problem with Slash's music is. He's afraid to break that old mold to turn off old fans, or whatever the reason is. Even his choice of Myles as a lead singer is the safe bet. Perhaps that's the problem with VR and getting an established guy who would push Slash into directions he wasn't comfortable with. Maybe a guy like Cory Taylor brought in the prospect of having to raise his game and having a relationship with Axl and to some extent Scott, of having someone not like what he's writing. I totally believe Axl when he said Slash told him he didn't want to work that hard at making music. His music is proof of that.
I think Saint Is A Sinner is the most interesting song on the album and I would have LOVED to hear Thom Yorke on it. I'd love a bunch of challenging shit from Slash. I don't think that's going to happen.
BTW, I'm not bashing anyone who feels differently than I do. If you love Slash's stuff and hate CD, that's just a matter of taste. Not saying anyones right or wrong.
And I completely disagree that UYI didn't lack focus. Those albums were all over the place.

While I did like Slash's solo album, I agree with your take on it. I think he definitely played it "safe" on that album. He picked a few pop stars, rock icons, etc. that he knew people would like.

Although I will say, lots of people were claiming the Fergie song would be a mega hit, and I never bought that. While I do like the song, I just didn't think casual rock fans would care for Fergie singing rock, and Fergie fans wouldn't care for her singing rock. So I didn't see it translating overall, and as far as I know, it didn't.

And in contrast, what Axl did with Chinese Democracy was anything but "safe".

Although, I don't think it's as far removed from past GNR music as some believe. I think a lot of the songs fit in with the UYI crop, with only a few being far removed. To quote Eddie Vedder, "it's evolution, baby!"

Intercourse

To me each of their "solo" careers just shows the part they bring to the old band.

There you have it summed up perfectly Monkey.
I can still wistfully imagine what Axl could have done with 'Watch This'

It must be very odd for both of them, alone behind closed doors listening to the 'other guys' stuff' when their new releases come out.

I probably smoke too much weed on the weekends but I end up thinking about shit like: has Slash ever picked up his axe while having a sneaky listen to CD and tore off a few lines just for the hell of it or has Axl ever forgotten himself and started singing 'Fall to Pieces' in the shower??

BS I know but I'm still completey fascinated by both of these characters. My wife thought I was a freak until I bought her to see VR and they blew her away. She understood what drew me to the band. After the gig even she said that putting Axl on top of that unit would just be unbelievable.

Its never going to go away for Axl is it? Next years HoF induction is going to bring it back to fever pitch again.

Axlin16

misterID wrote:

I was watching a lot of old GNR live stuff recently, it made me listen to Slash's Snake Pit to even his last record. IMO, nearly everything was pretty much terrible.
It's funny you'd (Axlin) say CD shows how insecure Axl is, I'd have to say the opposite. He went so far away from the original GNR sound, to songs that don't even have a category, that I think he was throwing it in people's face that he wasn't afraid to turn people off. I think his problem is that no one was there to say, "Whoa." CD shows he wasn't trying to fake an orginal style album to get people not to criticize him. He wasn't going the safe route. I think he went into this knowing people would be criticizing him. His problem was prefectionism, thinking more is better.
Slash's solo album reeks of insecurity. From getting all the old rock stars to sing sub par, generic lyrics over old school riffs to adult contemporary pop rock guys (I'm shocked that Chad guy from Nickleback wasn't there) to a POP song that was, again, imo, a desperate attempt to get a top ten hit. When Slash said he was scared to approach Thom Yorke that really struck me that my criticisms were pretty much right on in what "my" problem with Slash's music is. He's afraid to break that old mold to turn off old fans, or whatever the reason is. Even his choice of Myles as a lead singer is the safe bet. Perhaps that's the problem with VR and getting an established guy who would push Slash into directions he wasn't comfortable with. Maybe a guy like Cory Taylor brought in the prospect of having to raise his game and having a relationship with Axl and to some extent Scott, of having someone not like what he's writing. I totally believe Axl when he said Slash told him he didn't want to work that hard at making music. His music is proof of that.
I think Saint Is A Sinner is the most interesting song on the album and I would have LOVED to hear Thom Yorke on it. I'd love a bunch of challenging shit from Slash. I don't think that's going to happen.
BTW, I'm not bashing anyone who feels differently than I do. If you love Slash's stuff and hate CD, that's just a matter of taste. Not saying anyones right or wrong.
And I completely disagree that UYI didn't lack focus. Those albums were all over the place.

I'll hit on a few points here...

Slash's post-GN'R catalog isn't great, i'll agree. Most is not greatness. But to say it's all pretty much terrible - I don't think so. Snakepit has it's moments, but is largely forgettable, VR's Contraband is probably a shining achievement, a few of his collaboration songs, and his most recent self-titled solo album was pretty damn good, several tracks harkening back to his UYI work.

If you cherry picked Slash's best tracks from each work, and combined them into one album - it'd EASILY rival CD. "The best of Izzy" would also do the same, although I was submit that Izzy's stuff can be a bit 'AC/DC' in the fact that it can have the tendency to bleed together after awhile.

Axl attempts to 'reboot' Guns ala Batman Begins with a totally fresh concept, but a familiar taste was conceptually 'ballsy'. However, Axl didn't create a fresh concept, or adapt or 'evolve' Guns N' Roses into the future/present. Axl simply lifted a bunch of different ideas from popular acts of the time, put it together into a big "Music Shepard's Pie", and called it the new Guns. That to me reaks of insecurity. He didn't conceptualize a new vision for Guns, he simply cherry-picked Nirvana-drums, Zombie guitars, alternative bass, mixed with Axl vocals & orchetras = Guns N' Roses 2000.

I think it's very admirable to take the direction of something different, because even Axl said, he had no intention of replacing or replicating the old band. However in hind sight in 2011 - it was the wrong move. He'd of been better served just keeping the GN'R train a rollin', with a different cast, but the same blues-rock premise. Something like Axl Rose, Zakk Wylde, Izzy Stradlin/Paul Tobias, Tommy Stinson, Josh Freese & Dizzy Reed would've been just fine to accomplish that.

As for the 'high commercialism' on Slash 2010, i'll agree some tracks like Starlight & Back From Cali & especially Beautiful Dangerous were built for radio. But I think it's only fair to confess that Slash does stay true to his rock roots with appearences by Ian Astbury, Chris Cornell, Ozzy, Lemmy, Coop, Iggy, etc., as well as all of the original GN'R except for Axl. Watch This is pure Kashmir-like epicness, just aching for an Axl lyric & melody to lay over it. Would've also been interesting a Guns N' Roses '92/'93 song with Dave Grohl on drums.

So with all that Slash-safety, I do not believe that VR picking Scott Weiland for lead-singer was a safe move. Slash's core fanbase went into hysterics at how awful of a choice that was, people were expecting Guns N' Roses sans Axl, and what they got was Guns N' Pilots. Sebastian Bach seemed to be a popular choice at the time, and they passed citing 'too 80s' or something like that.

I do agree Corey Taylor would have big enough balls to demand quality material out of Slash. He's not gonna just sit there and kiss ass because he's getting the pleasure of recording with such a "legend". Myles is just too nice and too in awe of Slash's star power. He'd never have the guts to push Slash like Axl or Scott would.

I also agree Slash works too much on material, and doesn't take enough time to mull over quality pieces. That's why this idea of a "Slash II" out before the end of the year is a horrible idea and will be an absolute disaster. Slash doesn't have enough good ideas up his sleeve that fast.

With that said, Axl's policy of "closer by committee", and treating the band like the New York fucking Yankees, is never gonna give you any kind of a team unit in terms of band production in the studio.

Intercourse wrote:

If you look at it Axl not only broke 'it' but he smashed it, took ten years to fix it only for it to eventually sound kinda like a muddled version of the old band anyway.
Nothing that Axl put into CD is so 'out there' that guys like Slash & Duff couldn't have gotten their heads around it. Nothing on CD was worth the hassle that all parties have gone through with each other and with their respective careers to see get it out there.
There were no 'ahh Haa' moments when listening to CD that you saw the light and thought 'I was angry that Axl wanted the others out of the band but now I TOTALLY SEE WHY!!'
When Slash said he didn't want to work that hard on the music I think what he meant was that he didn't want to do it Axl's torturously slow, overthought and bloody minded way. He was RIGHT!
Fifteen years for a good album whose quality didn't vindicate the process used to created it.

Agreed. It took Axl what, a couple years to whip out Estranged, but it took him 15 years to release TWAT, which despite greatness, isn't as good as Estranged?

CD is a very good album, but Axl could've put out 4-5 albums over that span, and even if they sucked, you could've still pulled a "CD" out of best of the material.

misterID

You know, save a few songs, musically Libertad blew Contraband out of the water. Scott's lyrics were always the weak link of VR. The ironic thing is that I think Libertad was more of Scott pushing them to make music around his ideas, unlike Contraband that was basically written before Scott came on board and added his lyrics... Which sound like they were written by a guy in rehab.

And I'll say it again, I haven't heard anything from those guys post GNR, that rivals CD. I really don't. Again, people can try to imagine what Slash would sound like on CD songs, but besides TIL, those songs were all brought in by the new band. Slash would have never played on those songs, especially TWAT because Paul Huge was involved in writing it. And tbh, I like what the songs sound like, I don't want any other player on them replacing Robin and Bucket. That was what my big problem with Ron and Frank was and has been.

I also think its safe to say that some of the songs have an UYI feel, because those were Axl's songs that they sound like. I can hear that, but I can't hear anything that resembles anything the original line up put out.

Maybe it's just me, but all the bullshit wasted time doesn't affect, not one bit, how much I like a song off CD.

Olorin

^^Especially as we all know the songs were mainly written and recorded over a few years back at the start of the decade, not over 10-15 years like the media and not in the loop music fans think.

Olorin

All I own from Slash post GNR is the Snakepit albums, I thought they were ok, but havnt really listened to them since around the time they first came out.
Scott was the weak link in VR for me, I thought his voice was fine but his lyrics were terrible and completely turned me off the band, musically I thought it was pretty good though.
Slash and Freinds was alright as well, I think it has Slash's best work on it post GNR. Theres a few songs I think are pretty cool and a few clunkers, I cant bare the Fergie song, its god awful. The one with Lemmy is f'n sweet though

The biggest problem with CD is the way its mixed, its too inconsistant throughout and occasionaly there are real WTF moments. Overall though theres no hiding that the vocals and musicanship are excellent.

Roll on another album, and as far as I'm concerned the more far out and experimental, and unlike old GNR, the better.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Re: Unofficial CD 'reunion' T-shirt.

Board footer