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Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
monkeychow wrote:I wasn't saying either of those things.
Come on Buzz...it's not that hard...put Slash on catcher and it would sound like a UYI track...you know why? Cos the basic song underneath all the production is just like other songs Axl's written.
I'll grant that the other players new and old definately add something to the tracks...but I'm just saying if you look at the fundementals of a song like catcher - it's melody, it's structure...then it's very similar to a UYI song...regardless of the things that are different like production and guitarists.
You could say that about Mary had a Little Lamb. This is getting out of control. CITR sounds nothing like Breakdown. Anybody with 2 ears can hear that. End of story. I can't believe this has gone on this long...
If Axl sang Mary had a Little Lamb and recorded it with the new band, then you took their parts off and had the original band play on it, the song wouldn't sound the same. The original band would sound more UYI, the new band more CD. The only similarity would be the singer and the words. The same would be true with any song.
So you're taking that to an extreme and saying that a song sounds just like a completely different song even though the songs are different, the structures are different, and 80% of the performers are different with completely different styles. I get that you want to give the impression that this is the same band; it's not. It's the same singer and lyricist. That's it. There is nothing similar about CITR and Breakdown. I've yet to see you give any evidence that it is other than your opinion.
So yes, you can think that all you want. The facts say differently, but if you're waiting to convince me that you're right, you may as well drop it now. General opinion and the facts of the situation side with me. All you have is your opinion, which is a fine one for you to have, but you probably shouldn't waste time trying to convince others based solely on your opinion on something. Come back with some facts. Chord progressions, speed of the track, instruments used, verse/chorus/solo progressions...really, come back with anything to support you other than your opinion or the opinion of anybody else that just wants that to be the case.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
So you're taking that to an extreme and saying that a song sounds just like a completely different song even though the songs are different, the structures are different, and 80% of the performers are different with completely different styles.
I'm not saying it sounds just the same, I'm talking about the style of song.
As I said earlier...you listen to UYI and you can hear the Axl songs, the Izzy Songs and the Slash songs - even though each of them adds wonderstuff to the others works too - but you can also tell who brought each to the table.
To me Breakdown is very clearly a piano led ballad...so is november rain...so is this I love....
Breakdown and Perfect Crime don't sound anything alike...perfect crime is guitar drive...breakdown despite having great guitar parts - isn't.
But I would argue perfect crime shares quite a lot of similarity with some songs from snakepit 1 - as it's clearly dripping with slash's signature guitars.
So i'm talking about how the song would have been written. You could take breakdown or catcher and add any solo - some better than others - but the basis of the song is the piano part.
Conversly something like perfect crime - you can add any piano or whatever else into it if you wanted - but it's always going to be a guitar led song.
I get that you want to give the impression that this is the same band; it's not.
I don't give a fuck about that.
Anyone with ears can hear the different styles each of the guitarists.
All i'm am saying is that Axl writes songs that are similar style to his old songs, his craft evolves a bit if you like, but CITR, TIL, SOD and TWAT are very much the paino driven ballads that he's known for.
Chord progressions, speed of the track, instruments used, verse/chorus/solo progressions...
None of these things are relevant - i'm not saying it is the same song or sounds identical....i'm saying the style of those tracks is the same. They are piano driven emotional ballads...theres songs on the album too that are different - like Shackler - but those ones arn't all that different from past works. They are not identical - and they have new people playing on them and thus injecting different styles - but the basis of the song that those people play over is a paino ballad similar to the past.
You can take eveything else you wrote and apply it to back yourself. You say i'm desperate to prove the new band is like the old, but if you ask me you are so desperate to reject everything about the modern band that you arn't rational about this.
Explain to me how "This I love" is in a different style to "Novermber Rain" - what's really different about it? Other than that most would agree (russ excluded) that slash's solo adds more to november rain than robins did to TIL.....but at the end of the day they are both paino love songs with interludes of big emotional guitar solos.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
The style is the same? Really? The only thing that is the same is Axl wrote the basic song. That's it. There are no other similarities. I'd be more willing to give you Street of Deams over CITR as being similar, though I still don't think they are similar - at least SoD is a piano driven blues song (though in a completely different style).
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
To me, the only songs on CD that sound like UYI tracks are Street of Dreams and This I Love. The outro to TWAT does as well, but the first part of the song isn't anything like a UYI track. Just my two cents.
Agree. But I think there are other UYI-sounding songs on the album. Some parts of Madagascar could have been there, and especially CITR, which is similar to Yesterdays, except that nobody with half a brain would add electronica to a song like this.
But yes, CD is very different from the classic band, cause it's only Axl and a couple of other guys, and there isn't anybody who wrote AFD. So we have Axl's part of GN'R here, the Elton John and Queen influence, changed with Axl's later influences, like White Zombie, Moby and NIN. Mix it with the hired guys' influences and styles, and only hardcore will see it has elements of the classic band.
BTW good post Monkey! 
I think you are on of the few who clearly sees that Slash's Snakepit, Loaded, Izzy and Nu-GN'R all have elements of the classic band, and it's clear for you, too, how the old songs built up, who wrote what, and how YCBM, Locomotive or NR would have sounded without the others' input. Although some of them are not credited as songwriters on specific songs, they all did their best and took for example the basic Stones track YCBM to another level.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Explain to me how "This I love" is in a different style to "Novermber Rain" - what's really different about it? Other than that most would agree (russ excluded) that slash's solo adds more to november rain than robins did to TIL.....but at the end of the day they are both paino love songs with interludes of big emotional guitar solos.
So are a lot of songs. You're stating that every piano driven love song is similar becasue they are piano driven love songs? If you have to go to that length to make your connection, it only shows how weak your case is.
I wrote a piano driven love song with a couple smooth guitar solos when I was 15. I never realized I was so similar to Axl Rose. Good to know.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:You said you addressed it. So did I miss where you admitted people would be talking about how amazing it is? I must have, because all I see is you making excuses as to why the album didn't sell intead of answering a simple question. We're not talking about marketing or whether the songs sound the same as the band used to sound, we're talking about people buying and/or listening to the album. Keep up here...
Did people buy and/or listen to the album when it first came out? Yes or no?
Again, asked and answered already with regards to word of mouth.
Last thing I'll say on the topic is actually a quote from CR magazine on best songs of 2000-2009:
.........................
3. Better – Guns N’ Roses
From the 2008 album Chinese Democracy. After waiting seemingly centuries for the album to be released, wasn’t it inevitable that everyone would be initially disappointed with the results? Then you start to go back and discover this gem such as this, and slowly it dawns on you that Axl’s actually made a classic – but we’ve been too prejudiced to give it a chance.
.........................
If you can't keep up, or simply choose to ignore what I wrote, I see no point in continuing this dialog.Ali
So you refuse to answer? I expected that. It's your first step towards the cliff. Everybody's called you on the other one too. It's over, you're wrong. Good day.
Ha! Nice childish response. I guess this is some type of competition that someone has to win and someone has to lose 
One last time. Since you aren't connecting the dots for whatever reason, here it is as plainly as I can state it - Yes, people bought the record and listened to it. But, as CR magazine openly admitted, many people were prejudiced based on the delays, change in sound and change in membership. Hence, they dismissed it outright from the get go. Therefore, a good portion of the word of mouth that a good record would get was negated to a certain extent.
Certainly, there were people that legitimately didn't like the record on its own merits. But, to say that there weren't those who were prejudiced towards the record is incredibly myopic. And that bias reflected in their assessment of the record, which in turn has an effect on word of mouth.
But, if you're intent on believing that your opinion is right and mine is wrong, I guess maybe it doesn't matter what anyone might say. Enjoy your myopia.
Ali
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Ok, you don't have to just answer the question. Your refusal to answer the question is all the confirmation I need.
You're right - eerybody hated the album because of their bias. Only those that love it are objective. Good day, move along.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
I think CD is the best album GNR has made next to AFD. I'd rather have the 2002 band over a original band reunion. Slash couldn't carry Bucket's guitar strap.
Since we're all stating opinions for zillionth time, and no one is going to change it, just some childish "I'm right, you're wrong", thought I'd add mine. 
