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Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
faldor wrote:I realize singles can certainly drive album sales upward, but did Metallica have any really great/successful singles off of Death Magnetic?
While I did not like Death Magnetic, it definitely had a couple hit singles. The Day That Never Comes(only song I liked from it) charted at #1. Cyanide went #1 as well. All Nightmare Long was #9.
Then you have the last Alice In Chains record, which had a number of singles that did well on the rock charts, but that album didn't sell nearly as much as CD.
It went gold. Same as CD and it didn't have a ten year myth behind it and also didn't have the luxury of going gold before one person heard a track. Check My Brain went #1 on the rock charts. So did Your Decision. A Looking in View hit #12. They were insane for not releasing the title track as a single as that was a guaranteed #1 right there. I think it's one of their best songs in their entire discography.
CD(the song) hit #5 and then tanked immediately. Better was #18 then nosedived. Street of Dreams didn't even register on the charts.
Other than touring, AIC did little promo for that album.
Well, touring does help, there's no denying that. And GNR didn't tour until almost a year after the album was released. I just don't know of any artist to ever have a successful album/singles when their main man goes into hiding and isn't heard from for years on end. CD did quite well out of the gate, but the public lost any and every ounce of interest when they realized Axl wasn't going to be heard from, there were no appearances, interviews, or tour dates on the horizon. What was there to look forward to? "Better" was released by the label, maybe in hopes that Axl would get off his ass and contribute, but that didn't happen. Therefore, radio stations barely even played the song. "Street of Dreams" was never officially released as a single. It was rumored to be the 3rd single, but that never happened. I always thought that could be somewhat of a hit crossover single for them, but not the way things were going at that time.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
^ So you'd be shocked if you found out that both tracks were partially authored by the same man, because they are both so stylisticly different? I'm not saying they are the same in any kind of copyright infringment type way - but like if you can see no similarity between a song like Catcher and a Song like breakdown in terms of songwriting style then...well I dunno....like I said...agree to disagree.
So every song Axl wrote is the same? I don't see any similarities other than the voice, and even that is iffy at best. I guess if you're trying to say that Catcher is the same as Breakdown in the same way that NR, Don't Cry, Estranged and Breakdown are the same, ok I guess since those songs aren't similar either. If you're saying it's more than that, you're being pretty generous in your assessment.
I went to Best Buy tonight and there were about 10 CD vinyls. There were also 2 AFD vinyls. Didn't bother looking at the cd section.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
I'm not saying that every song Axl writes is the same, I'm saying that to some degree he exhibits a style of writing involving things like voice, structures, lyrical themes and expression, genre, peformance style and a host of other factors, and that the songs on chinese democracy despite having obvious personnel changes and very different production techniques exhibit a lot of the same charactistics.
To get more specific.
Think of Use Your Illusion.
While those songs are great because EVERY member of the band added something...in the style of the songs you can sort of see which member provided the genisis for that song.
Like Perfect Crime is clearly a slash style riff. Tons of his other songs exhibit similar traits to that guitar riff. Then Axl has added cool vocals.
November Rain is clearly an Axl based songs. Then slash has added killer solos to it.
You aint the first is an obvious Izzy style song. then everyone added their touch.
Can you not see what I mean?
If GNR was still the old line up then something like "By The Sword" would have been offered up by slash - and they all would have added kickass stuff to it, and something like "Catcher in the Rye" would have been offered by Axl and they all would have added great stuff to it.
I'm just saying these days the line ups of all GNR related bands a different but in my opinion both Slash and Axl still write in styles that are reminisant of their past works - sure there has been some evolution along the way - but fundementally it's similar.
Hense...if you get past the production issues - I don't see Chinese Democracy as really all that different to UYI other than the absence of the other guys - songwriting wise - you could say it was Axl's half of a UYI3 - rather than some drastic new thing.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
First, you can't get past the production issues. Second, if only one of the pieces is the same and every other part added is about as different as can be from what UYI was, that doesn't make them similar, it makes them different with one basic similar piece. It's not like the new guys added things even remotely close to what would have been added if the old band was still together.
Regardless of what you think is better, Slash and Izzy sound nothing like Robin and BH. And their styles are completely different. So you're saying one of two things: either Axl was the only significant contributor to both bands or the contibutions of the others while significant had little influence on the sound of the song. I completely disagree with both assessments.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
I wasn't saying either of those things.
Come on Buzz...it's not that hard...put Slash on catcher and it would sound like a UYI track...you know why? Cos the basic song underneath all the production is just like other songs Axl's written.
I'll grant that the other players new and old definately add something to the tracks...but I'm just saying if you look at the fundementals of a song like catcher - it's melody, it's structure...then it's very similar to a UYI song...regardless of the things that are different like production and guitarists.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Yeah, I'd say maybe a handful of the songs on the album at the most stray away from the UYI sound. At least in terms of progression. The UYI's sounded much different than AFD. I don't see the progression from UYI to CD as any more of a leap. Shackler's is the most removed, then maybe If The Word, Riad, and Scraped.
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
I wasn't saying either of those things.
Come on Buzz...it's not that hard...put Slash on catcher and it would sound like a UYI track...you know why? Cos the basic song underneath all the production is just like other songs Axl's written.
I'll grant that the other players new and old definately add something to the tracks...but I'm just saying if you look at the fundementals of a song like catcher - it's melody, it's structure...then it's very similar to a UYI song...regardless of the things that are different like production and guitarists.
You could say that about Mary had a Little Lamb. This is getting out of control. CITR sounds nothing like Breakdown. Anybody with 2 ears can hear that. End of story. I can't believe this has gone on this long...
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Yeah, I'd say maybe a handful of the songs on the album at the most stray away from the UYI sound. At least in terms of progression. The UYI's sounded much different than AFD. I don't see the progression from UYI to CD as any more of a leap. Shackler's is the most removed, then maybe If The Word, Riad, and Scraped.
I'll agree with most of that. Progressing and being similar to are two completely different things. If you want to say CITR is a progression from Breakdown, I guess I could see that. If you want to say they're similar, you need to lay off the crack.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
Apologies to everyone in the thread who just wants me to drop this already....
But I find this discussion sort of facinating as Buz's opinion is as "crack worthy" to me as it seems mine is to him.
Maybe we are talking about slightly different things.
To put it another way:
I like both the new and old bands.
Now, while I understand some people miss the old guys, because the new music is a little different, I find it odd that someone would enjoy the old music and HATE the new music.
If we continue with my Breakdown example.
While the whole band plays a role, to my ears there's 2 distinct things going on in that song that are really noteworthy:
1. Axl's contribution - the lyrics, the piano foundation, the structure, his voice and his peformance.
2. Slash's contribution - the emotive way slash plays guitar, the peformance, his choice of notes..etc...
Then I look at catcher and I hear two things that are noteworthy:
1. Axl's contribution - the lyrics, the piano foundation, the structure, his voice and his peformance.
2. Bumblefoots solos - the phrasing, all the stuff bumble has done.
Now here's my point:
Personally I enjoy both bumble and slash - but what I don't understand is - even if a person hated bumbles parts - and only liked slash....if you consider the songs from that perspective....at least 50% of a song like catcher is Axl.
So like a person with those views rating the songs you'd expect to give Breakdown like 100, (50% Axl, 50% slash) and then Catcher like 50, (50% Axl and didn't like the rest).
So while I can understand why people might generally like the old band more, I can't understand utter contempt for the new songs - as many of them are at least 50% towards the way of the old songs.
Seriously, take TWAT, TIL, SOD or Catcher, remove the existing guitar and add Slash and the songs would be indistuingishable from Use your Illusion era tracks in my opinion.
So i guess I understand why you may not like them as much as UYI, but the way you seem to suggest the whole album is rubbish (other than twat) just doesn't compute for me!!
Re: Chinese Democracy now $1.99
It doesn't have to compute for you. It computed for plenty of people. I'm far from alone in thinking the way I think; in fact, your opinion is so far out there from how people in general feel about it. Even the positive reviews that came out didn't mention CD as sounding like the original band.
The album sounds nothing like the original band. TWAT is as close as any of the songs to the original band, which probably explains why I (and most other people) consider it to be the best song on CD. Even given your example, the other 50% of the song is so different than anything the old band did and ever would have done. If they re-recorded Breakdown and were told to play it their way, not the way it was done, it wouldn't sound like Breakdown. So you'll have to forgive me (and most other people on the planet) for not thinking Breakdown sounds anything like CITR.
