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Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Either fallacy or misunderstanding.
Apex, you know how I am with specific dates. Its been so fucking long I sometimes get years(specifically that mid-late 90s era) mixed up.
I stand by my statement that the album would have been shit had it been released in 98 or 99. We got a small taste of demos that say they are from 99(could be a year earlier or a year later) and those tracks were audio dog turds with CITR being the only exception. Even though that track is a gem, it needed work as well. A very rough demo which also shows the album was nowhere near ready at that point in time regardless of Beavan, Moby,etc. thinking the material was good or bad.
Over half the vocals were recorded in '99 and edited further.
Whether 99, 00, 01 or whatever, I will never be able to comprehend how someone on Axl's level considered those vocal takes final. It would have took him what....days, maybe a few weeks to go in there and redo those?
Yet to this very day some have the gall to call this guy a perfectionist.
The real mystery to me is what happened between 2002 and 2006 or so.
We each have specific eras that interest us, but the only time frame that REALLY interests me is 2000-01. That's when the train started moving full speed ahead music wise and of course the few shows that was reintroducing GNR to pop culture and it seemed like it was time to unleash the beast. Axl failing to pull the trigger when the planets aligned is just bizarre and I hope someday he goes in depth on that period of time.
But it seems the raw basis of most of the songs was there in 2002. I'd be really interested to know what happened for the 4 or so years before bumble seemed to arrive and end the log jam.
Dizzy said in early 2006(right after Axl reappeared at that Korn party) that the band had not seen each other since 2002. The only known action going on from 2002-2006 was in 2005 when Tommy said that he had been in the studio working on some interludes for Chinese.
I would have been interested to see how the 2002 tour would have been accepted if Axl's voice had been closer to how it sounds now - with the rasp back -
2002, a bunch of new songs, Axl performing and looking like he did in 2006, one word comes to mind to describe how that would have went down and the public's reaction.....
Audioslave.
and if he'd used 1 lead guitarist - buckethead - for every solo.
Huge mistake and I'll never understand why he let someone at Finck's level be perceived as the replacement to Slash when you have a guitar god with unlimited potential standing next to him.
The equivalent of Soundgarden having Cornell drop vocal duties but continue on as guitarist and bringing in William Hung to take over on vocals.
MAKES.NO.SENSE.
I know the fink fans wouldn't like that.
Tough shit. The album and shows would have been better. They would have thanked Axl for demoting Finck.
It still would have some issues - bucket's apperance
Nothing wrong with his appearance and like the album, would have gelled with the early 00s pop culture. Hell, Bucket caused a huge buzz on the red carpet at that awards show when Bootsy was hanging with him. Name ONE CD era member besides Axl that can draw that kind of attention(not counting Tommy's cred in the industry....strictly referring to the capability to create a buzz on presence alone).
edit:
The "actual album" was made from 2003 onwards.
I find that incredibly hard to believe. Take into account Bucket bailed a year later, and it's REALLY hard to believe.
Sounds more like revisionist history/damage control.
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Maddy needed it's original 2002 take. Raspy Axl doesn't work on the melody of that song.
Oh and by the way, a 1999 release CD with the lineup of Axl Rose (vocals), Robin Finck (guitar 1), Axl Rose (guitar 2), Paul Huge (rhythm guitar), Tommy Stinson (bass), Josh Freese (drums), Dizzy Reed & Chris Pitman (keys)).... would've been the most fuckin' suck-tastic GN'R lineup in it's history.
It'd rather have an EP with Tracii Guns, Ole Beich & Rob Gardner from 1985.
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
The "actual album" was made from 2003 onwards.
I find that incredibly hard to believe. Take into account Bucket bailed a year later, and it's REALLY hard to believe.
Why would Axl need Ron to contribute to decade-old songs if not for this very reason?
Bucket recorded most of his contributions on record with Sean Beavan in late '99/early '00.
Roy Thomas Baker came in and the drums were completely overhauled, for one. Not much of that era appears to be on the album, tho.
Axl reproduced / edited the album with Caram Costanzo from 02/03 onwards. There was a library of material and stuff was combed together from scratch.
Reason? Lunacy.
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Hopefully we'll see a second album, and that story will be told.
Because if you're theory is true, the second album should be DOMINATED by DJ & Ron, and that this elusive 'vault' that Axl's got, won't even be an LP's worth of tracks. It'll be a few cutting room floor tracks with Robin & Bucket, that might make up a bonus tracks release on iTunes.
AND if that's true. Axl wasted ALOT of fuckin' money of Geffen/Interscope/Universal, and even though the debt is cleared... I don't blame them for never ever wanting to do business with him again with a Guns-less Guns N' Roses.
That truely is fuckin' lunacy.
I mean think about it. Axl spent upteen dozen million dollars for CD, and all he has to show for it is CD, and four additional UNFINISHED tracks.
Just thinking about that makes my head want to explode.
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
The band left the studio as a band in Jan/Feb 2003. Everything after that was Axl and individual band members and engineers just doing bits and pieces...if you read through all the interviews from that timeframe, it is pretty clear that was the case.
- Mikkamakka
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Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Don't you wonder what motivates a creative person like Tommy to continue with Guns? They very likely haven't written any new material since 2003. It's been 8 years. You'd want more than rerecord stuff alone, wait for others to rerecord stuff or tour almost the same setlist in every 4 years. I know he's doing SA, he's doing his solo thing, but there's nothing to exceed his creativity in GN'R. He's not Pitman who seems to be the closest person to Axl in the tinkering game. Dizzy has never had any ambition, same goes for Frank. Even the lazy Richard had enough and got side projects to tour (or to get some more money). I really don't understand why these guys like Tommy and Ron stick with Axl, except the fat cheque.
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
James Lofton wrote:The "actual album" was made from 2003 onwards.
I find that incredibly hard to believe. Take into account Bucket bailed a year later, and it's REALLY hard to believe.
Why would Axl need Ron to contribute to decade-old songs if not for this very reason?
Microscopic hair splitting. An album that needs Ron to wank over a finished Riad or Fortus to strum an inaudible guitar is an album I consider finished. It's not like these were demos and the post 2002 lineup walked in and created an album to Axl's liking.
Are we to believe that if Ron, Frank, and Fortus do not contribute, Chinese Democracy is unfinished and we're still waiting for it in 2011?
Re: Alternate artwork (NEW scans inside!)
Don't you wonder what motivates a creative person like Tommy to continue with Guns? They very likely haven't written any new material since 2003. It's been 8 years. You'd want more than rerecord stuff alone, wait for others to rerecord stuff or tour almost the same setlist in every 4 years. I know he's doing SA, he's doing his solo thing, but there's nothing to exceed his creativity in GN'R. He's not Pitman who seems to be the closest person to Axl in the tinkering game. Dizzy has never had any ambition, same goes for Frank. Even the lazy Richard had enough and got side projects to tour (or to get some more money). I really don't understand why these guys like Tommy and Ron stick with Axl, except the fat cheque.
tommy was never a hugely creative force in the replacements, westerberg was the song writer. it's only since GnR that tommy has really branched out into his solo work.
it's p obv it's the fat cheque & the interest garnered from being under the GnR umbrella that has these guy's hanging on.
tommy really didn't get very much money from the replacements days at all, so gnr in a way is the industry paying back to tommy what it owes as the 'mats were one of those incredibly influential bands with the sales figures of a tito jackson, like the velvet underground except miles better. or like big star.
from what he has said about the project, tommy did pour a good bit of effort into it. of course not that you can really hear it in the end result..
