What part of an album, and the quality of it's songs being different do you not fucking get?

When I say the production of Chinese Democracy is not better than any other GnR album, I am talking about the technical aspects that are involved in the recording process. If you can say that it's your opinion that Axl purposely went out and hired Brian Mantia for thousands of dollars (or whatever he pays him), so that he could purposely make him sound like a 400 dollar drum machine from Guitar Center on most of the album, with some sort of logical explanation backing it up, excluding the idea that Axl just likes to spend money, I'll concede. This isn't an issue of taste, I'm not debating that, it's an issue of common sense, of what is artistic vs. what is a fuck up. Appetite is one of the most perfectly recorded albums ever, and the recording of CD doesn't do the songs justice.

And as far as your suggestion... Whatever. I'm posting in the old GnR section and VR section, and having arguments over Chinese Democracy, which I didn't start.

Was it artistic expression for Axl to spend thousands and thousands of dollars tapping Brian Mantia to play drums, so that he could have him sound like a 400 dollar drum machine?

Posting a stupid picture won't make the question go away.

I once borrowed a 2500 dollar Les Paul to record some stuff and get a nice thick and rich sound, and when all was said and done it sounded thin and twangy like a 900 dollar Telecaster... Artistic expression, or fuck up?

The songs are good, the album sucks, they are not equal. It's not an opinion, it's a technical observation. The drum tracks sound like a drum machine, that is absolutely horrible when 2 of the best drummers were tapped for the album, that doesn't scream superiority. An album is much more than just the quality of it's songs... You really think this is the best album Axl could have made or has made?

Opinions are total bullshit anyway, they can and do change over time, so you can talk like your opinion is somehow definitive all you like, it isn't. I used to think Contraband was better than UYI 1, I don't anymore, so much for opinions.

Yeah it does... Absolutely.

UYI 2 better than Appetite? Suuuuuuuuure it is. The Best song on UYI 2 is better than the best song on Appetite, but as a total album, there is no fucking way it's better... Had they, for instance, put "Don't Cry" on Appetite, instead of "Out Ta Get Me", the song might be better, the ALBUM would have been weakened, it would have killed the tempo, that's why it was left off, THAT is a smart production move. "My World", "Shotgun Blues", "Get In The Ring", that is widely acknowledged filler, ever since the albums came out, long before there was any Axl vs. Slash bias bullshit. The 12 best songs released on the 2 UYI albums, are better than Appetite's songs, it would still not make a better album, it would be unfocused... That is not a good album.

With Chinese Democracy, Half the songs on it, the ones that had leaks 5 years earlier, and people who criticized them were told to shut up cause they weren't done so of course they would sound the way they did, sound too much like the damn leaks STILL, except that instead of the excess being edited out, and the mixes being better, Axl added more shit and didn't improve the mixing. It's ridiculous.

"Shackler's Revenge"? Ok Ministry of Axl Zombie. It has it's moments, but the beginning is absolutely dated and shit, it should have joined Silkworms and Oh My God on the cutting room floor, or at least reworked.

"If The World"? Axl sounds like an evil Barry Gibb for 5 minutes! Great song otherwise.

"Chinese Democracy"? You have to pack a fucking lunch and a change of underwear just to get from the start of the track to the first fucking musical note. Good song otherwise.

"Better"? The song moves a long great, and then hits that brick wall from 3:15 to 3:25 that kills the progression of the song, adding nothing of worth to the song. He could have also cut the first 10 seconds also. Favorite song though.

"Street of Dreams"? From :30 to 1:50 Axl's vocals are totally weak and strained, there should have been another take or a better take to use. After that the song kicks ass.

"TWAT", is another solid song that could have had the opening trimmed.

"Scraped"? The beginning vocal harmony is ridiculous, it's like Axl trying to be Axl's II Axl. After that the song is killer.

"Sorry"... Song is great from start to finish. Would have preferred this type of vocal on "If The World".

"Rhiad" does nothing for me, another intro that is too long, and on top of that it breaks into Robert Plant "Immigrant Song" ripoff. Wouldn't miss it if left off.

"IRS" does nothing for me, the music is good, but nothing. Wouldn't miss it if left off.

"Madagascar" I was sick of, it's just boring to me now.

"Prostitute" is a good song, even this vocal would have been better on "If The World".

"This I Love"? It's a beautiful song... The only problem is that it's a love song in which he's saying he doesn't know why the woman he's singing about left him, and when I listen to it I just wanna scream "BECAUSE YOU BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HER!!!!". Also, the lyrics are a little repetitive.

The really inexcusable problems with the production, this motherfucker had Freese and Mantia, 2 of the best drummers around, playing on the cd... Why does so much of the drumming sound like a fucking drum machine? A good drummer isn't supposed to sound like a drum machine, just keep time as good as a machine. And a lot of the tonal aspects of the instruments sounded mechanical and cold, sterile is a good word. I'm listening to Estranged right now, and that sense of coldness is not there, same with "November Rain" which I just switched to, no coldness, heavily produced but doesn't sound or feel mechanical, it isn't on every song, but it is on too many of them.

I like most of CD, I'm sure Axl had other songs that are better that he should have put on it in place of some, but the songs and the overall music is good for the most part... It is not superior though, it has tons of production issues that Appetite doesn't, or even the Illusions. This isn't an indictment of Axl's ability to write songs, it's about his judgment in the studio producing them, he shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a mixing board.

You think it's the second best thing GnR released? There are people that believe the moon landings were fake.